Tory welfare cuts will impoverish 200,000 children next year and more than 600,00 in 2020

dj and I live in the real world Ana , not in a world where people think there is no problem with people having their furniture listed to see what they can sell before being considered for help. Yes there are benefit cheats and yes there are people who run businesses who do not declare all their earnings thus avoiding paying tax . In the real world people with a car in their drive do lose their jobs and are not always able to find another job so they need hell. Seems soon would find it acceptable to take an iPad from a child to be sold I do not , people fall on hard times - in the real world

Well, of course I knew you'd say that, durhamjen! And somehow I don't think that 'everybody else on GN' is going to respond to your question, as most of them don't bother with the political threads any more.

Sorry, that should have been do not know.

Figures, please, Ana.

"Most of us know families where no one has ever worked."?

Really, as soon would say. I actually do not a single family where nobody has ever worked. What about everybody else on GN?

£400 a day, GillT! Do you get any help to set it up? I wonder how many micro businesses have given up now because of that. Any figures anywhere?
Don't look now, get on with the job in hand.

Oh dear, soontobe, you do lay yourself wide open!

Of course most of us know families where no one has ever worked, nor wanted to, and claim all the benefits they can. I'm certainly not saying it's more than a small minority, but there's no point denying such things go on. Of course dj and anniebach seem to live in a different world to the rest of us...

What is wrong with that? Bloody hell....
If you do not know there is no hope in hell of explaining.

By the way, soon, I said resent, which is not quite the same as being jealous.

Yes Dj we will end up with people coming into houses and assessing belongings and possessions before any assistance is given.....back like in the good old days when we had the deserving and undeserving poor

What is wrong with that?

Yes, really, soon. I do not suspect everyone of being on the fiddle.
I didn't think that people asking for help from a charity had to be destitute. I thought they only had to have problems paying their bills at the time of applying and could see no change in the future.
It surprises me that someone working for a charity would complain about them having the latest of anything.

I did see a report in a paper last week about a man who was sanctioned because he did not have a computer or ipad, and could not do a jobsearch as there was nowhere he could find one to use, he did not know how to and could find nobody to teach him in time..
I believe him as well.

Hopefully Kupari45 can enlighten us further.

Yes really soon, the post speaks of a car in the drive , this sounds like a family who had been working , flats and social housing do not have drives and this is where so often the poorest in society live - and in B & B's or hostels

Yes Dj we will end up with people coming into houses and assessing belongings and possessions before any assistance is given.....back like in the good old days when we had the deserving and undeserving poor. So, if my health should fail, and my business subsequently go to the wall, should I sell my car ( which is on finance), my 3 year old flat screen tv and my mobile phone before anyone gives me any help? What about Ugg boots, would I be allowed them? I truly despair but now I am beginning to understand just how the government can impose these sanctions on people......Now, although I am a bloated capitalist (not) with my own business, and I even have a husband who earns too, I have a mound of paperwork to do as I now have to start running a pension scheme, in my own time and really cant afford a £400 per day fine if I fail to do so!

I knew someone would think it was jealousy!

. I assume they got them before they lost their jobs, or became too ill to work.

Really?

I do not have the latest, but I do not resent others having them. ipad? What's an ipad? I do not even have a mobile phone that works, let alone an ipad; but as I say, I do not resent others having them. I do not know when they got them how long they have had them for. I assume they got them before they lost their jobs, or became too ill to work. I do not spend my time being suspicious of others who have more than me.

www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/15/government-accused-trying-cover-up-negative-impact-tax-credit-cuts

This is much more important to discuss. Why did the government try to cover up the figures?

I see that some posters have missed out the bit where Kupari45 mentions latest tv, latest tablets, I pads etc.
Many many other people do not have such things.
Oh, I forgot the mention of a new car.

Presumably the money for such things came out of money coming into the household in one way or another.

Yes, Anniebach, if you have a television, you cannot be poor. If you have one more chair than there are people in the house, you cannot be poor.
There was a programme on with Nick Hewer and Margaret Mountford, and that's what they did. Went round people's houses just like they did a century ago to find out whether people had too much furniture and whether they could sell it to get money, before they were given any subsistence allowance.
The good old days.

So we compare those in poverty now with those who were in workhouses in the 19 the century ? We want to see them listed as pauper before we think they are in poverty.

So poverty is to do with the things you have, rather than the amount of money you have coming into the household, is that right?
Strangely enough the government thinks that, too. That's why they are changing the definition of poverty to exclude anything to do with finance.

I was employed as a case worker for a large well known childrens charity. Parents could apply for grants for uniforms, shoes and in some cases assistance with rent and heating bills. I would go out to visit applicants in their homes and I had to go through their weekly budget to see if they qualified for financial help. Over the years I was amazed at what families considered was "living in poverty". Most homes appeared to have the latest televisions and the kids often had the latest tablets, I pads etc . New car on the drive etc. I aiways tried to be sympathetic and helpful and they usually received some assistance. I'm retired now. However when ever I read media reports of families living in poverty I think back to some of my cases- they have no idea what poverty is in this day and age.

Gracesgran you said you didn't think it was true that people would rather live on benefits than lower themselves to do such jobs. I beg to differ, you obviously don't live near me or ethel. I hear this said every day.

I am sure that there is a need out there for people who are good at diy to find work helping people who are unable to di themselves.
A friend was saying this morning that she wants some jobs done, not particularly skilled, and that it is impossible to find anyone to do them, and some that will do them rip people off.
She asked Age Concern in the end for one of their recommended handymen and has been waiting since July for him to come.

People are being forced into zero hours contract jobs, brings down the unemployment figures but still means people are in poverty

Press release by the government in January said that there was a record number of jobs on the market, 700,000. However, they did not say how many people were looking for jobs. The official figure which could be found in various other publications was over a million higher.
Do not know what the figures are now, but it means a million people who want jobs cannot possibly get them.
Are they all lazy good for nothings who do not deserve any help from the DWP, or rather, from the rest of us?

It may have stuck in my mind.