Food banks

Agree with you Riverwalk.
Whenever this government is criticised, some always say it was worse under Labour. So what?
Food banks were not worse. There were not so many families starving because of benefit sanctions. The reason that there has been such a rise in in-work welfare benefits is because of low wages. That's something that needs addressing, then we will not need food banks.

One thing that the Tories never seem to realise is that if you take money away from those on low pay, less money circulates in the local economy.

www.minimumincomestandard.org/

This is an interesting tool, to see how much people are thought to need to live on, run by two universities.

Again? Hurray!

You must think what you will, and I'll leave you all to it.

I'm curious. Is there any country in the world that posters here consider in every respect perfect, and would consider to be a shining example to all the rest? I don't think one exists, but you may know differently. Before shouting me down, this is a genuine question.

Far from a genuine question Niggly - it's dripping with sarcasm.

I think we all accept that nowhere is perfect but some places can be better than others, and although the UK compared to many places is a fortunate place for us to have been born in we can always strive to make it better for those at the bottom.

Why do we need a model country? Why can we not be the model ourselves?

If you want model countries on welfare, and how to look after your people, I would say Norway and Denmark; in fact any country that has a much smaller gap between those at the top and those at the bottom of the welfare system.
Doubtless, Niggly, you will find a reason to niggle about that.

Little point in complaining about a country one doesn't live in

Haven't read one post asking for perfection, just for support for the vulnerable in this country .

Read an interesting article about 'the guilty middle' seems they are the Tory party's concerns, and no, I can't recall where I read it, not in the guardian though

OK - concrete solution number 1

Revisit the sanctions regime and work out how it is effecting the poor.

Talking of foodbanks (at the risk of repeating myself) if you shop online at Ocado you can make a donation, say £5, and they will double it and supply goods to their partner foodbanks for £10.

They supply from lists sent by the foodbanks so only wanted items are sent.

No model country then? I rather thought not, just endless complaints about this country. We live in such a difficult world where perfection is just not possible. People do what they can with what they've got, and it can't always be totally right. Instead of constant criticism, how about a few concrete suggestions for a solution?

Before food banks there were workhouses.

I heard the CEO of the Trussell Trust on the radio. The first Trussell Trust foodbank was in Salisbury, when they realised that people were going hungry on the streets. I would never have thought of Salisbury being a place where hunger was noticed.

Of course they are, I didn't suggest otherwise.

I do think families are more mobile and fragmented than they used to be. People are far more mobile, especially in large towns and cities, which is where most of the population now live. Family breakdown, the current system of shorthold tenancies, the bedroom tax, sale of what were council houses and with local authorities now moving homeless families to other towns 10s of miles from their home borough, those most in need do not get the chance to build up those close supportive networks based, not just on family but neighbours in a very small area were they lived for long periods.

My mother's family, Irish immigrants, lived in a small area of Bermondsey, for three generations and almost 100 years. My grandmother, a clever and socially mobile lady then succeeded in moving herself and her children to a semi-detached house in a pleasant suburb. The family are now spread all over the country from York to Lyme Regis.

If you are on a reasonable income, have access to computers, cars or can afford public transport then family and friendship ties can easily be maintained over long distances, but if you are poor, dependent on others as to where you live, the whole social welfare system set up to support you can completely fracture the fragile informal support system that also helps to sustain you.

So these new secular food banks are not essentially the same thing as what religious and charitable groups offered before?

I think they are and I am tired of hearing about the supposed fragmentation of society. I am not seeing it, at least if there is fragmentation it is no worse than it has ever been.

nigglynellie, no, I do not think there is any country that is perfect in everyway, nor will there ever be, but that does not stop me thinking that validating failures in this country by quoting similar failures in other countries is unacceptable.

What happened before food banks? Well their were a lot of unofficial ways of getting help. When many more people had religious affiliations they would approach their minister or other religious body, or their church would be aware of their need and help. I can also remember an elderly lady, my grandmother's god daughter, who grew up in much poverty in the docklands of London, explaining how groups of families coaesced in informal groups of friends and families who supported each other through good times and bad.

I saw the tail end of that in my childhood: my DGF automatically offerd a home to his childless sister-in-law when her husband died, another distant relation immediately provided a home for the vulnerable adult son of a close friend when his mother died.

People no longer have religious affiliations and the fragmenting of society means that these close mutual support groups no longer exist in the same way.

Thatbags Often it was "food vouchers" from children's services, but that had many disadvantages.

What happened before the current wave of food banks started? What has changed if there were no food banks before? Were there no food banks before? Before when?

I think the fact that there are food banks in other equivalent countries is significant. It's all very well to dismiss that fact but something is affecting other 'rich' countries as well. It's not just us. And there isn't an easy answer to the problem.
I am not excusing the problem by saying that. I'm wondering what has gone wrong and why. Also whether our social security system was much better before? Was it?

However can comparison with another country validate what we do? The UK is a sovereign country and makes its own decisions.
There are choices ,the choices we have currently made, where people are forced to use food banks lowers a person self esteem and dignity. It sends the message that they are worth less.

I'm curious. Is there any country in the world that posters here consider in every respect perfect, and would consider to be a shining example to all the rest? I don't think one exists, but you may know differently. Before shouting me down, this is a genuine question.

"So far, so good. But what does the research actually show? First, it finds that food bank users had typically experienced one or more significant crises in their life, such as job loss, bereavement, ill health or relationship breakdown. While referral to a food bank sometimes arose from chronic low income, more typically it was as a result of an acute income shock. Food bank use was generally seen as a last resort when other forms of support had been exhausted. The interviewees spoke extensively of the feelings of shame and embarrassment that food bank use evoked – while also saying that they would have been ‘bereft’ without it.

Digging deeper, the research shows that the immediate income crisis triggering food bank referral was often linked to the operation of the benefit system (affecting between half and two-thirds of those from whom additional data was collected). Key problems that food bank users had encountered included a benefit claim that had not yet been decided (28-34 per cent of cases); benefits being stopped or reduced due to a sanction (20-30 per cent); and problems with disability benefits, including money being stopped due to being found fit for work (9-16 per cent). In addition, during the course of the research it became clear that the interval between ‘mandatory reconsideration’ of employment support allowance (ESA) claims and a possible appeal, during which time no benefits are payable, was also emerging as a potential problem.

In turn, these failures were compounded by shortcomings with the ‘safety net below the safety net’. Hardship payments, short-term benefit advances and local welfare assistance – all designed to support people when other sources of benefit income fail – provided inadequate support in many of the cases. Food bank users were often unaware of these discretionary forms of support, and found them difficult to access, while only small numbers reported receiving assistance even when they had applied."

From research by the Child Poverty Action Group, December last year.

Our food bank and drop in centre have the CAB there to advise, help and support, we do not want DWP staff who send people to food banks in food banks advising

Germany had the Berlin Wall in the sixties . So easy to say other countries have food banks / soup kitchens yet ignore the faults of the same countries .

An article in the Guardian.

Yes, but, but, but, as I understand it the majority of Food Bank users are already in work. Although a DWP bod sorting out their entitlement to other benefits would certainly help.

All I can say is that the fact that there are food banks in the USA, Germany and France does not validate the presence ofr them in the UK. Food Banks, in any country are a sign of the failure of the state to provide a proper, fair and dignified welfare system.

What publication is that from, durhamjen? Halfway down it says 'Read more'. Read more what?

I do not think it matters whether food bank use is better or worse in other countries. What matters is how bad it is here.

''Specifically, Duncan Smith’s remarks suggest the government is comfortable with food banks being an integral – and presumably permanent – part of the welfare state, as a de facto charity partner reliant on public donations dealing with the fallout from cuts to benefits and DWP inefficiency.

It is also a tacit admission that there is a clear link between welfare policy, in the form of benefit sanctions and benefit delays, and the rise in food bank use – something Duncan Smith has aggressively denied for years, in the face of mounting authoritative evidence.
Job advice to be offered at food banks, Iain Duncan Smith tells MPs
Read more

Plus it inadvertently highlights that the glacially bureacratic and complex DWP system is often appalling at serving vulnerable customers. Disabled people, people with mental illness, with learning difficulties, those with debts or who are in poverty or homeless, often end up in food banks precisely because the benefits system is slow, inaccessible and capricious."

This is what is wrong about it, that IDS thinks it should be part of the welfare system. Shouldn't he be trying to change the system so that food banks are not necessary?

I notice you only picked up on my mention of the USA, Anniebach, but didn't comment on the German or French figures. Why should the UK be expected to be doing better than the rest of Europe?