Would you support the doctors' strike.

Certainly about working times I would think, and medical care is always about patient safety.

As it was costneutral, it was the same money, just spread differently. Therefore it was never about money.
Hunt wants to have seven day full cover for the same amount of pay. Surely that is not possible, although those at the head of the BMA seem to have agreed to it.
That, to me, just shows it is not about money. It's about work practices and about safety.

The junior doctors strikes are over..... But this thread runs merrily on.?

Also, just for clarity, it was the Times article that suggested the strikes were about money. I was simply relaying that fact.

The BMA eventually agreed to it after a great deal of disruption and after concessions by the government about the details of the proposed deal. It seemed to be about money at weekends for the doctors.

However, I remained neutral on the issue because I read about the positions of both sides and found it all very confusing. It did not seem to me that there was ever a clear case for striking. There may have been but what it might have been was never clear to me.

Bags, your post about the Times article was suggesting that the dispute was just about money.
As Hunt says it is cost neutral and the BMA agreed to it, how could it be about money?

The Ought To Be argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If it did one would not be allowed to have an opinion about anything that didn't happen in the country one was living in at the time so the fact that most of my relatives live in England and that I might be concerned about the effect of the junior doctors' dispute on their health care (whether I agreed with the doctors or the government) would not count for anything—I simply wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion or a concern in the matter—nor would a merely ethical interest in the whole shebang.

Pure bitchy nonsense is all it ever was or will be.

Oh dear, DJ*, How do you know I have nothing to say?
Or is that another "ought to" order?
Funny how you can change the subject back again when it suits you.

The thread is about junior doctors, Alea. Once again, you have nothing to say on the subject.

"Dr McVeigh said that previous versions of the contract had failed to acknowledge the crisis, or to set out mechanisms that will address it.

'Does this contract suggest ways to attract more trainees to desperately understaffed areas - A&E, psychiatry, paediatrics,' she said.' These things have to be addressed. The thing that makes jobs in medicine attractive is not the salary but the pattern of work. Your actual salary is not the defining thing that means the job is enjoyable, but how many hours you work, are you trained well, and supported.'

She urged junior doctors to consider the deal 'dispassionately', and to consider whether it was safe, sustainable, could stop the brain drain from NHS medicine, deliver good quality care and was non-discriminatory. 'If those things are OK, then maybe it will be acceptable.' "

The contract has been published today. This is what a junior doctor trainer says the junior doctors should do. She does not say check how much pay you are getting as the Times article seemed to suggest.

Are you saying that those who went on strike were not doing so because they cared for the wellbeing of the patients?
The voxpolitical link suggests otherwise.
Have to ask because I am always being accused of misinterpreting what you say.

"“I was beginning to doubt [it], but this leak has actually served to restore my faith in his leadership,” said Thomas Jones from Oldham on the group’s page, which has over 62,000 members.

A number use the hashtag #IStandWithJohann to demonstrate their solidarity and support towards him. John Hughes, a GP in Manchester, added: “The ‘leaks’ simply show a team of negotiators doing their job of discussing all options and strategies with a shrewd far-sighted leader who is not swayed by the bigger beast of BMA corporate policy.” "

Many responses to the leak are similar to these.

How "Little England" is it to refer to Scotland as "abroad"?
Oops forgot jessm, anniebach and no doubt others who make no secret of where they live. So not "checking up." Maybe you should read what other people say dj- as a light relief from posting links.

I expect it was leaked now to show those junior doctors who agonised (because the do care about patients' well-being) about supporting the call to strike that the BMA committee probably didn't represent them very well.

Thanks for the support, alea, but I just think things like "Oh fuck off with your ought to be", when I read remarks like that. Getting inured to the digs from that quarter. I would never say them of course!

Bags said she was neutral. Just agreeing with her.
Do all those live abroad? I never realised. Are you keeping a check on everyone, Alea?

Unless you have a Swiss French keyboard- et voilà!

Another pronouncement from the thread police?
Anyway, living in Scotland, you ought to be neutral
That's a bit xenophobic!
I don't notice you denying granjura, Felice, mcEm, katek, soop, tizliz, Mamie, envious, ffinocchio and others a voice because they are not residents of England

Have you not wondered why this has been leaked now, when the BMA are waiting for the contract to be printed so that junior doctors can vote on whether they want to accept or not?

Jeremy Hunt is dispensable. Thousands of junior doctors are not.
Anyway, living in Scotland, you ought to be neutral.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/05/26/online-newspaper-bids-to-undermine-junior-doctors-before-contract-referendum/

Can't wait for you to put the leaks up from Hunt's side.

I'm glad I kept a neutral stance on this issue. Things are never as simple as popular media suggests.

According to this article in the Times today, leaked texts between members of the junior doctors' committee show that although those in the BMA representing the junior doctors claimed that the dispute between them and the government was all about patient safety, in fact that was a lie and all they were really interested in was money. The texts also revealed, apparently, that committee members wanted to draw the dispute out over about eighteen months.

Although the BMA accused the government of "playing games", it would seem that the BMA was guilty in that respect and that the government did, in fact, make concessions.

Above article is a leader. This is via the online front page.

Yøûr wèlcômè !

Précis! Thank you!!

What alea said, ceesnan: just keep your finger on the letter you wish to accent and, when the accented letters appear, slide your finger up to the one you want. Good luck!