Attacks in Paris

WilmaKnickersFit- I am so sorry ;)

TriciaF also makes the point well- and in this context, and I am sorry to repeat, the Book Thief does illustrate that point very well. So I'll stand by my mention of it- as it is NOT a diversion, and a direct reply to a well made point - and I would urge anyone who has not read it to do so.

Brainswashing was indeed not the right word to use on the other thread- but dehumanising and desensitising, and I am very prepared to apologise for that- but felt at the time it was better not to.

My neighbour was 19 at the time- they had a just cause of course in this case- but it still stayed with him for life- they had been told they were bombing factories and soldiers- and that the towns had very few civilians. Despite the cause being just- it still haunted him for life.
I won't say another word about it out of respect.

PS the member's name is WilmaKnickersfit
Try saying it, it may have lost something in translation to KnickerWilmafit

Granjura you seem to like taking a thread as far off topic as possible especially when your comments have had little support.
Your introduction of The Book Thief was in fact on the other thread and seemed like a particularly clumsy way of getting out of an unfortunate and indefensible comment about the ostensible "brainwashing" of British armed forces.
I repeat my reply at the time:
A bit of changing the subject here!!
Not arguing with the dehumanising element of warfare, look at the famous football match in WWI, but let's leave reviewing "The Book Thief" out of it, and agree that the quote about "brainwashing" was, is and remains tosh
The word was ill -chosen, the notion that our armed forces were brainwashed, downright insulting. I don't care how fond of your neighbour you were, you have misjudged the British mentality, especially when up against the evil which was Nazi Germany

And please don't anybody lecture those who have direct knowledge of what it was like to be unfortunate enough to have lived or grown up under the rising Nazi regime, it was nothing like as black and white as it may seem with the benefit of 80 + years of hindsight.

just as many Muslims in some areas have to appear to be behind their Government or other armed and dominant forces- to survive and save their children?

Alea- why is it an un-necessary diversion to show just how so many Germans had to pretend to be behind Hitler, to save themsleves and their family, in the context of this thread?

Following this statement by KnickerWilmaFit:

For example, in Germany the vast majority of voters supported the Nazi Party, not the minority

Everybody and his auntie can make a bomb. The debate about the Russian jet was whether ISIS had weapons that would bring a jet down from normal cruising height. In any case, 9/11 demonstrated that you don't need explosives.

youtu.be/6ibKWVTFSak

I think the weapons were captured from the Iraqi army who ran away. The arms had been supplied by the USA, who also trained them, not in how not to be cowards though!!!!

So now ISIS has the means to bring a plane down, nobody thought that they had.

wilm out of my head- doesn't happen very often

Putin has now admitted it was a bomb that brought the Russian plane down. So he will now be committed to defeating IS even more. They lost 224 people.

Ha ha"FIL" should have been "film "!

But was frankly irrelevant, whether the book (excellent) or the FIL (dire). An unnecessary diversion.

Which is why I mentionned the 'Book Thief' as it is an excellent illustration of that reality, same for protecting Jews.

Adding to Wilma's posts ( I know, off topic) - many Germans were forced to join the Nazi party through fear of reprisals if they didn't.

Wilma in the context of Brigitte Gabriel's answer, I think my interpretation of what she said about ordinary Germans was not an unreasonable one.

whitewave that's very good. Did you write it or is it a quote?

I am64 my understanding is when Hitler came to power many workers were joining the Communist Party which worried employers, so businesses gave financial support to the Nazis. By 1938 the Nazis had the support of over 90% of the electorate and many Communists were imprisoned for crimes against the state. Concentration camps had been around since about 1934 and Communists were one of the groups who were imprisoned there.

[I think the thread has gone too far off topic, so I won't be replying about this subject or Brigitte Gabriel. ]

thatbags I wonder if the French will acknowledge that report?

United is the key
United in defeating terrorism
United in helping those fleeing from the hell that is IS
United in our culture and values
United in rejecting the culture and values of ideologies represented by IS

We must be a mirror and hold ourselves up to reflect back good for all that is bad.

Haven't read the thread but my post concerns the Paris attacks. I've just seen this report that Turkish officials apparently warned France twice about one of the gunmen involved, in December last year and June this year.

Yes, Hitler was supported by many Germans because of the difficulties they had following ww1 (to be brief). I'm not as sure as you are Wilma that everyone was in full support of his actions though. Many people were brave enough to stand up against him. They ended up in concentration camps didn't they - that is trade union members, activists seeking to persuade others to oppose Hitler and his merry henchmen.

Sorry, I don't know why my post was duplicated.

janeainsworth I know what her Wikipedia page says and she probably maintains it. She's far more than an anti-Islamic extremism activist, she's anti-Islam full stop.

And not only are you making an assumption about what she meant about ordinary Germans, those Germans did know what was going on and supported Hitler to the bitter end. Research first published in 1995 now shows the only thing ordinary Germans may not have known about is the use of 'industrial scale' gas chambers because no media reports were allowed about this 'final solution'. Evidence gathered by Robert Gellately an Oxford University historian shows from 1933 onwards shows everything else was reported in the media. Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels considered the 'Hitler Myth' to be his greatest achievement.

Ana I should have called her extreme right wing or ultra conservative, although yes, I do have a problem with right wingers because I'm a left winger.

janeainsworth I know what her Wikipedia page says and she probably maintains it. She's far more than an anti-Islamic extremism activist, she's anti-Islam full stop.

And not only are you making an assumption about what she meant about ordinary Germans, those Germans did know what was going on and supported Hitler to the bitter end. Research first published in 1995 now shows the only thing ordinary Germans may not have known about is the use of 'industrial scale' gas chambers because no media reports were allowed about this 'final solution'. Evidence gathered by Robert Gellately an Oxford University historian shows from 1933 onwards shows everything else was reported in the media. Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels considered the 'Hitler Myth' to be his greatest achievement.

Ana I should have called her extreme right wing or ultra conservative, although yes, I do have a problem with right wingers because I'm a left winger.

As for right wing - as long as it's not extreme, what's so bad about that?

If she was left wing would that make her views on Islam more acceptable somehow...?