pacifists/conscienti ous objectors/Jeremy Corbyn

2 posters are defending the pacifism. 1 thinks that JC's stance is great. And 3 mention talk about things against IS as tit for tat/revenge.

Meanwhile what IS is doing is continuing.

whitewave, while you question, IS continue.
How long would you like questioning to continue?

Paris happened while people questioned.

soon The term "conscientious objector" was given in wartime to those who refused to obey the summons conscripting them into the armed forces, because they did not believe in killing, not even killing in defence.

They were instead directed to other work, like stretcher-bearing for first-aid teams, where they did sterling service helping the injured, often losing their own lives under fire. Some of the alternative work was arduous and dangerous, and they were generally despised by the soldiers and called "conchies"

They would not have killed for a different army, because it had nothing to do with the ideals of their own country.

A pacifist believes in peace and works for it.

Thank you Elegran for that description.
I am 20 years younger than a lot of gransnetters, and did not know much of the above post at all.

A couple of more questions please?
Would a pacifist therefore go to war? And do defence and self defence?

soon, you said in a reply to me that you disagreed with Lord Sopers views, how could you disagree when you now say you don't understand what he stood for ?

I dont really understand what he stood for. As I said before I was very young at the time, early teens? So having only briefly googled and going by what you have written about him, yes I disagree with him.
[you might be best bringing this up on a religious topic such as God and war, rather than news and politics?]

The God and war topic I happened to start before the attrocities in Paris. But anyone is welcome to put anything to do with God or war or whatever they like on there. Prayers too. Whatever.

Nothing to do with God , all to do with a pacifist , so as you disagree with him how can you ask what pacifism is ? You ask about Corbyn and pacifism , it has nothing to do with his politics, I spoke of Soper but not of his faith

Did you not study the two world wars in school?

I will reiterate, that I only briefly googled. And add that I only then mainly looked at it from a God/Bible point of view.

I remember very little study of the two world wars either at primary[probably there was none] or secondary[I gave up history as a subject as soon as I could], and I dont remember what we studied, but whatever it was, there were not many history lessons, and I am pretty sure that there was little or very little talk about WWs. I do remember Henry 8th, that is all I remember.

Perhaps googling for every topic isn't helpful?

As a grandmother, do you encourage your grandchildren to settle their differences by fighting it out with no holds barred, regardless of injuries and damage to the house and bystanders, or do you try to find ways of getting them to sort out their differences by discussion and negotiation?

I thought the gist of what JC said was that he wasn't likely to support military action that could be considered an illegal war i.e. Aggression against another state without the sanction of the UN or NATO. Syria hasn't invited us in to my knowledge. I didn't hear him say he would never support military action.

whitewave. Your post of 12.23pm yesterday.
This is the nearest I can find to what you said
www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/03/jeremy-corbyn-cannot-envisage-sending-british-troops-overseas

which is actually not at all like you said?

allule. The ways have been tried but they are not listening. Meanwhile some grandchildren are trying to kill other grandchildren, and in some cases succeeding. You have dead grandchildren already. Do you carry on merely talking?

Sorry to be brutal, but I have put it in context for you.

soon, he said - cannot currently , this was said in the summer not this week

Allule
I hope that my DGC are becoming civilised human beings who are starting to listen to reason.

I don't think discussion and negotiation are on ISIL's agenda.

Soontobe. Many moons ago you told us that you did Latin at school. I find it difficult to believe that a school that taught Latin didn't mention the two world wars. And it's Henry V111 not, Henry 8th.

I am not sure which bit you are exactly meaning Ab, but you think he is changing his opinion now?

petra. I did two years of Latin. It was definitely war stuff, but as far as I can remember anyway, no way was it WW11 stuff. It was more like 1000AD stuff.

When were these talks held soon? Not between one or two countries

Soon Your post uses the term "defend" a lot. It is not defence to drop bombs on what may or may not be a group of IS or women and children they have chosen to use as hostages/cover. It is not defence to send troops into a country unless they have asked for help. It is not defence to launch attacks on anyone unless you are absolutely certain that the outcome will be something better than the situation as it is. I would have thought we might have learned something from past 'actions'. The roots of IS are certainly in our actions in Iraq. If we are not careful we will find ourselves in the same position as the Americans did in Vietnam, fighting an unwinable war against idealism, with the very real difference that our opponents will have the facilities to bring their fight to our own shores. If we do not learn the lessons of history we are fated to repeat our mistakes.

This is a fruitless thread. There is no scope for the intelligent debate that many posters are trying so hard to initiate, as it is regularly scuppered.

This issue of what pacifism is has been debated and described in detail on another thread, but one person seems not to have grasped it yet.

Corbyn is being true to his beliefs and is stating that he does not think that Britain should engage in any acts of war that are illegal - I find it hard to believe that anyone could take issue with that. There is general agreement that when when we last did that we exacerbated the situation.

soon, sorry but I am confused by your replies , you post a link on an article on Corbyn, I reply quoting the first comment reported and now you ask which bit I meant.

On the subject of the two world wars, I was taught about c/ objectors, my daughters were as were my grand children , I am surprised you did not cover the wars during your time at school

Sorry Ab. I got a bit lost by your comments, but now see where your post of 12.19pm came from. But still cant see where your 12.26pm comes from.

Ab and petra. I am, as everyone is, a product of whatever was the specific school curriculum of the time.

Lg I will look at the other thread if I can find it. But I didnt put my questions as far as I have this time.