Turkey shoots down Russian fighter, scary times.

Quite a few commentators suggest that, like Saudi Arabia, Erdogan has more in common with ISIL than he has with those opposing ISIL. Erdogan authorised the bombing of the Kurds who were fighting ISIL and no doubt he is equally opposed to Russia which is an ally of Assad and an enemy of ISIL and ISIL-affiliated groups.

On the BBC News site this month:

".. critics have increasingly accused the 61-year-old leader of polarising the country - by brooking no dissent and harbouring a secret agenda to turn Turkey into a fundamentally conservative Muslim society.

"... his supporters applauded him for taking on previously untouchable establishment figures, who saw themselves as guardians of the [secularist] state created by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

"He has backed Syria's opposition in its fight against Bashar al-Assad's government in Damascus.

"... in 1999 he spent four months in jail after a conviction for religious incitement. He had publicly read a nationalist poem including the lines: "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers."

Now I am hearing on the news that one of the pilots survived and is alive and well. I am definitely

And one was shot in the air and the other, on the ground. The rescue helicopter was destroyed together with it's pilot. At least that is according to current information.

Savages, the lot of 'em.

the crew parachuted out of the plane

Apologies, I meant to say that Russia is pro Assad but against the rebels fighting the Assad government and against Isil.

I don't know enough about the history between Russia and Turkey to begin to understand why the Russian plane was shot down. It seems the pilots were shot by 'rebels' , but I'm not sure which rebel group.

Whitewave is right, it's a bloody mess - let's hope the Russians don't over react, but what would any government do in their situation?

I have always considered Turkey as a Middle Eastern country trying desperately to be European (but without the typical European values). This doesn't not surprise me at all. Watching the footage on last nights news it was questionable as to whether the plane was in Turkish airspace at all (very borderline) and considering it was heading back why did The Turks feel it necessary to shoot it down? Throwing their weight around perhaps?

And as for murdering one of the pilots.....pure evil .

Oh dear- what a bloody mess. Turkey is a member of NATO and so if Russia react to Turkey's activity they may me taking on NATO. It is beginning to look like hold your breath time.

Yes, I know.

The Turkish Air Force shot down the fighter plane but it was Turkish (called something like Turkamen) rebels in Syria who shot the pilot when he ejected and they also shot down the helicopter sent to rescue, killing the pilot of that too.

Shoot the plane down and take the pilots prisoner, maybe. But shooting them is barbaric. Savages.

Russia has been pushing the limits by straying into other country's air space and seas. Now Turkey has reacted.

I didn't type that twice. Bloody technology.

They didn't have to kill the pilots. Seems to me they're all terrorists out there.

They didn't have to kill the pilots. Seems to me they're all terrorists out there.

Yes it is odd I saw the news and what was said, but I also saw a couple of military men earlier on who said Putin was being deliberately restrained and playing it down

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34913173

I don't think Putin is playing it down, whitewave

Yes it could whitewave. Scary times indeed. I think Turkey is against the Kurds who are against Assad. Russia is against Assad, the opposition rebels and Isil. The US (supported by us of course) is against Assad, pro the opposition rebels and against Daesh/the terrorists calling themselves Islamic State.
I'm agains the lot of them,well not the Kurds I don't think. Assad is a Bad Lot. The rebels seem to be a Mixed Lot. Daesh are beyond dreadful and I keep seeing them in the same light as the Nazi's -ie, there is no reasoning with them. The Saudi's seem to be funding Daesh, unless I've been misled. The Saudi's are our friends and are good pals with our royal family.

I'm happy to be corrected, but if I'm any where near what we think may be the truth, we're up that creek I fear.

So far it looks as if Putin is playing it down. Phew! Undoubtedly this sort of incident could lead to war.

I think we want him out too. It's just that IS is a far more urgent target. For the moment.

But Russia wants to support al-Assad and America wants him out, so as we always jump when America calls we are in a bit of a pickle

I am far more afraid of what will happen when the UK joins in the bombing.

I think and hope this incident will be between Turkey and Russia and, hopefully, will pass without any escalation. Russia is keen to have our co-operation in defeating IS.

And perhaps CND were right all along with nuclear proliferation and how it was only a deterrent when we were the only ones to have nuclear bombs. Scary times indeed.

The Russians do seem to like to chance their arm recently; we have had to chase "escort" them out of our airspace several times recently, and we have also had to borrow someone else's anti submarine surveillance aircraft in order to track Russian submarines which have "inadvertantly strayed" into our waters. They don't seem to be good at borders. They are good at the sort of military mischief which heightens tensions!

Me neither seagazer - we do not want countries being trigger happy. It leads to mayhem.