What ideas are there instead of bombing?

Durhamjen Anniebach

There is a question to be asked over the role of APPG's, All Party Parliamentary Groups in general. However Nadhim Zahawi as your link states has declared all interests in parliament.

The problem with the link is it smacks a little of the recent cock up by The Green Party which had to do a climb down recently after it's Foreign Affairs Spokesperson Tony Cark (former Labour MP of Northampton South) who accused General Energy (Rothschild) of accepting Islamic State Oil on Radio 5 in November.

A retraction was made which said " The Green Party and Tony Clark wish to public ally retract this statement and accept it to be untrue and without foundation Bla, Bla, Bla".

Since when has hatred/dislike given way as it so often does for some to make rash, judgemental comments with either a lack of knowledge or with the purpose of making their inuendo stick but having no proof.

The All Party Parliamentary Group on the Kurdistan Region in Iraq has the following committee as of July 2015

Chair and registered Contact. Jason McCartney. Conservative
Secretary. Mike Gapes Labour. (co-op)
Treasurer. Lord Clement Jones Liberal Democrat
Vice Chair. Nadhim Zahawi. Conservative
Vice Chair. David Anderson Labour
Vice Chair. Mary Glindon. Labour
Vice Chair. Lord Glassman. Labour
Vice Chair. John Woodcock. Labour (co-op)
Vice Chair. Fabian Hamilton. Labour
Vice Chair. Bob Stewart. Conservative
Vice Chair. Stephen Metcalfe. Conservative
Vice Chair. Lord Phillips of Worth Travers. Conservative
Vice Chair. Lord Brew. Cross Bench
Vice Chair. Baroness Hodgson of Abinger. Conservative
Vice Chair. Lord Trimble. Conservative

6 Conservatives. 6 Labour 2 Cross Bench and 1 Lib Dem

The group is formed to promote friendship and understanding between the
peoples of the Kurdistan Region in Iraq and the UK and to encourage the
development of 'democratic institutions' in the Kurdistan Region as part of the
democratic and federal process in the rest of Iraq.

Nadhim Zahawi fled from Iraq with his family because of the oppression of Saddam Hussein. Now whether or not he 'uses' his position on the APPG for self promotion I do not know but as the link gives innuendo and no proof of such behaviour then I will not defend him but most certainly would not assume he has, as you both obviously do.

There is another moot point the APPG probably was started before IS got a hold of oil, it was in my opinion a genuine attempt to link with the Kurdish Nation who has far as I can see is probably the one of most democratic of all the Arab Nations , certainly taking the brave fight to IS.

So Anniebach in answer to your statement 08.31 we are not all indifferent but neither are some of us so blinkered we see only wrong doing unless there evidence of wrong doing , which may or may not come as time prevails but not as of this moment as far as I can tell.

So Anniebach

you had a vote in the house rosequartz? ?

Yes, I was thinking about the OP too which posed an extremely pertinent and valid question, and thinking that nothing realistic has been suggested.
The horror pictures are emotive and upsetting, but they are not pictures which resulted from any action by the UK in Syria. The fact remains that something needs to be done unless the whole lot of moderate Syrians have been totally annihilated by one side or another.

If the bombing by the British of Syrian oilfields in the hands of ISIL is not considered to be a constructive answer to the OP, then perhaps some posters could come forward with more constructive answers.

This thread has no ideas from pacifists ( as I am kindly supposing some to be) that are meaningful or represent any real alternative to getting involved in military action in Syria.Doing nothing is not an option and does nothing to help the children, or the adults there from the horrors Daesh are inflicting on them.What I am hearing about the Stop The War Coaltion confirms what I already think about some of them.

It doesn't for me . For me John Donne speaks

The Merryn Williams poem sums it up exactly for me.

It seems those who support the bombing are indifferent to a Tory MP involved in a company which sells oil or in the company

It seems that those who support the STWC are unconcerned about its website claim that Daesh/IS are the International Brigade of today.

How can we stop the selling of oil when the government's spokesperson is implicated in a company which sells IS oil?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kurdistan-delegation-led-by-tory-millionaire-nadhim-zahawi-raises-concerns-that-mps-will-be-9359279.html

He gets paid £20,000 a month for this, on top of his MP's salary.

www.theguardian.com/books/2015/dec/07/michel-faber-donates-book-of-strange-things-to-syria-cameron
and suggests he drop it from a plane, so that it might, with luck, hit a Syrian.

you had a vote in the house rosequartz ?

There is a video somewhere taken at the actual meeting and it clearly shows Tatchell confronting the panel.

It looks like the BBC Daily Politics program with Abbott and Muzna! on the 5th Nov is no longer available to view.

Merryn Williams: Why We Had to Bomb

Merryn Williams 07 December 2015. Posted in Poetry & Spoken Word

With great reluctance,
with a profound sense of responsibility,
I ordered air strikes.
My thoughts are with the gallant men and women
who, as I speak, are carrying them out.

I had no choice.
This act was forced upon me
by the appalling, and wholly unacceptable
behaviour of our enemies.

I deeply regret
any civilian casualties
which may unhappily (but, I hope, in small numbers)
occur as a result.
My hands are clean.
As I have explained repeatedly,
the fault is not ours, but that of other people.

Those films
the other side insist on showing
of children’s coffins (probably empty) being
carried through streets of mourners
are a disgraceful propaganda ploy
(which won’t succeed), to play on the emotions
of those who cannot see the wider picture.

Finally, may I take this opportunity
to thank you for the many greeting cards
I and my family have received this week,
and wish you all a very happy Christmas.

Pogs, at the risk of being accused of being unpleasant, I confess to feeling that making DA look a tad foolish is not difficult

Rose quartz , after Ana remind me the STW meeting where Tatchell alleged Syrians who wanted to highlight Assad's brutality towards his people has been discussed on this forum, with no definitive conclusion, I had another Google search. The allegations are consistent but PT seems the consistent source.

My main concern f course, is the implications of the Matt Carr article for supporters of the STW group

The Stop The War meeting that Dianne Abbot chaired and the Peter Tatchell incident is on a thread somewhere .

The young Muslim woman that was ejected. (if I remember the story correctly and her name was Usma?) was on the Daily Politics show sat alongside Dianne Abbott , she made Dianne Abbott look a tad foolish .. Probably still available to watch somewhere.

I take your point about Tatchell,s credentials
not sure I should have posted that, if it's deleted so be it.
It was nothing really controversial but I knew the truth of the matter!!

I apologise for not posting links to the various articles and blogs I found after reading about the Matt Carr article. A friend who has be nice an active supporter of the Stop the War coalition came across the Carr article on their website and told me he will never support the organisation as a result.
I take your point about Tatchell,s credentials and have written to my MP For clarity.

The allegation about Syrian spokespeople being prevented from speaking at a StoptheWar meeting was discussed on GN at the time. There seemed to be confusion about what actually happened.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Or do we say to the children in Homs we are sorry for you but forgive us we cannot get involved this is your problem we will do nothing to try and stop Assad and the barbaric IS from coming to enslave you at best but at the worst kill you with barrel bombs , phosphorous chemicals and beheading, crucifixion and raping your mother in front of you .

We have differing opinions but not one of our views will stop the slaughter, doing something has consequences , doing nothing has conseuences.

The one thing that this sorry mess does not allow is for any one of us to believe that our chosen route can relieve us of some kind of guilt, give us some kind of impunity because which ever thought we hold our action causes the same problems, whether that be to believe in fighting or whether that be to stand idly by and just spout words of sorrow and empathy.

Both views have equal consequences but only an egocentric believes they can absolve themselves from blame because the truth is Syrians are damned if we do damned if we don't. I just wish people would remember the civil war in Syria started because the people wanted democracy and turned on Assad, he in turn decided to slaughter his people. To read some posts you would think the UK started it and is enjoying it.

Those who choose to mock, carry on
were you talking to yourself there anniebach?
Your tone has been mocking towards certain posters throughout.

And don't you dare say I have no sympathy for the Syrian children.

So you only like to have a dialogue with people who agree with you, do you, Ana?

Yet another of your erroneous assumptions based on your prejudices, durhamjen.

You have illustrated my point very well, thank you!

Title of thread is not Christmas festivities , it has Bomb in it . I will not and cannot forget the children in Syria

POGS,you can choose to believe more bombing will stop IS, will stop rape and murder ,I do not m I feel deeply for those who suffer at the hands of IS and I feel deeply for those who live daily with bombing raids , never knowing if the next one dropped will be the end of their lives

Those who choose to mock , carry on

So you only like to have a dialogue with people who agree with you, do you, Ana?
The thread is about what to do instead of bombing. Some on here appear to have forgotten.

I read an article by Matt Carr on the stop the war website. In it, he compares dash/Islamic state with the International Brigade. He states that whilst the International Brigade fought for the oppressed working classes, Daesh/IS fight for oppressed Muslims.

I also found a link to comments from Peter Tatchell, who complained about Diane Abbot, who he alleged refused to allow Syrian spokespeople to participate in a Stop the War meeting.

Apologies for the absence of links. I was genuinely shocked and dismayed by these allegations. What does this mean for the stop the war campaign?