I think this man should be chrged with extreme child abuse

"So why do we think he made the decision?" (to bring along his wife and children)

Oh come on! Think about it.

In that case I apologise for finding many of your posts ranty, ab.

Yes, lucky, as a hypothetical motive it's a possibility, but it seems unlikely.

I'm wondering if any of the boat skippers drown when their boats go down.

I agree that his motive was most likely to be freedom. My question was aimed at those who think he had some hidden intent that overrode any considerations for the safety of his family - that he had something to gain that his family did not; that they were dispensable and he is guilty of deliberate abuse. I was seeking an explanation as to his motive for "abuse", which implies evil intent.

thatbag, I do not rant I reply, and I do not reply to your posts all the time because I do not read them all

I realise calm might be a big ask but I'm sure you can do it.

I think you might not have read the owrd possible in my post, ab, nor the part where I said I wasn't implying that it was his motive. I made a completely detached statement in reply to someone's question. Please read my posts calmly instead of ranting about them all the time.

Freedom? He could have walked away but decided to take them with him, take them in a boat with full knowledge they would drown , that makes sense!

So they all have tv in those allegedly all well run sites ?

Freedom is a possible motive, I think, lucky, though I'm not suggesting it was this man's motive. I'm not suggesting it wasn't either, just saying that it's an obvious motive.

There is a DVD Adrift: Children of a Lesser God. This is by a Frenchman and should be shown in those well run Turkish sites to show people what the crossing is really like.

And his motive?

Was the item dubbed or did he really speak such good English ? And speaking so well had he never seen a map of the Med. ? And his wife would have been wearing hefty all covering stuff as would older children. Presumably she was still a nursing mother so would have drowned with her child in her arms. IMO he should have saved one child. Long ,long before we married I saw my DH risk his own life to save a possibly dead child. His reaction to this man was how come he survived.

And where does common sense stand in all this?

Not being educated or not being very bright are not reasons to put a person in jail , neither does it mean the pain of their grief is less than the bright coins in the mint

And of gambling with his children's lives

Iam you've probably put your finger on part of the cause - yes, a bad decision, being gullible (no life jackets needed??) and ignorance of what this journey entailed. He stands accused of gross stupidity, if nothing more.

I haven't heard the father interviewed but on the radio news this morning, I heard a reporter say the father paid several thousand pounds to the people smugglers. He was assured the boat was strong enough to deal with the winter seas and that he and his family wouldn't need life jackets.

I know nothing about the level of education the parents had, but I know enough about the seas around Greece to know they can be flat calm in the summer months, but serious storms can blow up very quickly. The people who need to be prosecuted and imprisoned are not people smugglers. This poor father made a poor decision, presumably because he thought it was the better option for his family. He'll live with the consequences for ever. I don't suppose his mental health will ever fully recover. Before anyone shouts at me that 7 children and a woman died terrible deaths yes I know that. Unless this man is some kind of psychopath, so does he. How will he sleep at night. I'm sure the people smugglers will be out there, peddling death.
These deaths and others like them need to be widely publicised to people fleeing Syria.

I know a number of Muslims, and people who are in mixed marriages. One British friend was totally dominated by her husband, but I know a family where the husband does not dare to enter the home without removing his shoes because his Muslim Iranian wife is very houseproud and has him totally trained. Just because one family reports something doesn't make it a general rule.

So why do we think he made the decision? - assuming that it was his and not a joint decision as seems to be all the rage on here.

What might his motive have been?

Did he want to rid himself of the encumbrance of this big family?

Did he think he might make it rich in Europe and cared not a jot about his family? - if so, why did he fork out the money (and it will have been a considerable amount - the traffickers are not in it for charity) to take his family on the boat?

Was he just a complete idiot? - that is not an indictable offence.

Some of these posts assume that there was something in it for him alone and that he did it to feather his own nest in some way - but what way?

I am sad and angry that this has happened but can see no logical reason to suppose that this man had any bad motive. It simply makes no sense at all.

"there will never be peace in those countries". If you are interested in the empires that have held power in the region www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html
Just click and 5000 years pass in 90 seconds.
Faced with such choices who knows what one would do? Survive in a camp with a freezing winter approaching or take a risk and strike out for what you are told will be a better future just a short trip away.

I have pointed the finger directly as that Meglomaniac Assad, but I also question the wisdom and motives of the father in taking his family on this journey.

Re the two children and mother whose deaths recently were well documented and so tragic, and the father survived, in an interview with the woman's sister, she said her sister did not want to undertake the journey but the husband insisted.

To compare the gender divide in this country to that in the Middle East is frankly ridiculous.

Were they crossing from Bodrum?
I cannot believe a loving parent would willingly risk their children's lives like that.
There will never be peace in those countries,there never has been.
What is it the bible says," there will always be wars and rumours of wars"
Definitely true in the Middle East.

True trisher , in a country where two or three women are killed every week, where a Prime Minister can openly patronise a fellow MP to laughter by fellow male MP 's , where there are so many safe houses for women to find shelter from abusive partners, where so many men dodge paying maintenance for their children , we cannot point a finger at other countries

We are all upset and angry but some of us choose to direct that anger at the people who are causing these terrible happenings and not at the victims.
I am shocked by the amount of stereotyping appearing on this thread. Some Muslim women are oppressed by their husbands and some are not, just as some liberated western women are dominated and intimidated by their husband or partner in spite of everything. We don't know anything about this family really.
So the man who survives is a 'child abuser' but a woman who survives is not! Double standards or what!!! Men love their children just as women do!

I know the generosity of the Turkish people
Turkish businessmen have been very generous with help for some of the smaller charities helping refugees in camps there, including the one I support.