Cameron's Christmas message

actually, very attractive faux Cotswold stone houses, and the ones for purchase [most already gone] in all prices.The local Council have bought a certain amount for social housing.It seems that no matter how many they build, people still want them.

Roseq, I did not mean your lack of knowledge of private patients using NHS beds. I meant everyone's lack of knowledge.
NHS leaders have not put out statistics to keep us in the dark about it, but it happens. You need to wade through an awful lot of articles to find any worthwhile statistics. FOI requests get ignored because of "commercial confidentiality". I know because I have tried.

"Six elite hospitals in London attracted £153m from private patients last year, with the Royal Marsden pulling in £51m, up £6m on the previous year and accounting for 23% of total patient income. Next most successful was the Royal Brompton with private patient revenue of £29m. The figures point to a market developing for surgery as the NHS cuts back on what it offers the public."

23% of total patient income from the private sector at the Royal Marsden.
These figures are from 2012, before the health and social care act came in which allows them to make up to 49% from private patients.
A hospital only has 100% capacity, like any other business.
If nearly half it's income comes from private patients, how many fewer NHS patients can be treated in that time.

nhap.org/what-you-can-do/information-bites/the-privatisation-of-our-nhs/

"...changes made to immigration rules..." (Wales) Well, thank the Lord for that! When our son was ambulanced to a hospital in Wales, (going back a bit now) we couldn't understand anything the doctors said to us because of the unintelligible spoken English. Not good.

I live in Berkshire, just over the border from Oxfordshire. So I have just missed being posh. Sod!

Can any of you honestly say that, if you needed an op, and could afford to go private, you would still wait for the National Health to fit you in? You would? Don't believe you.

There must be some top consultants who like mountains. Not a bad lifestyle to be had around Bangor. Especially with the Internet, and fast trains to London.

Yes, I can say that, jingl.
I also would never choose to go to a Spire hospital even though that is often on the list round here.

In answer to your question concerning paying for health care jing, it's clearly No, I'd pay! But I can't, so regarding DH's treatment we wait, and are very grateful for the excellent care we have so far received.
Not sure if I'm, that silly word!! Born in Oxford, lived in Berkshire, (now Oxfordshire), moved to Somerset, and now live in Wiltshire 40 miles from the Oxfordshire Border, (was once the Berkshire border!) have a friend whose now deceased parents, lived in Chipping Norton! (always been Oxfordshire!!) Very confusing these boundary changes, particularly on that word front!!!!

One of the reasons for consultants not moving to Wales or Scotland is the pension situation. If they are in the NHS pension system they are immediately forced to leave the old system and move to the new which offers much worse terms-later retirement, less money etc. If you are half-way through a career you're just not going to do it.

trisher, I didn't realise this, and of course you're right no one is going to do it. Is it the same for G.PSs?

Not sure-just know someone who was looking at a job in Scotland-perfect job but they decided not to take it when they found out what they would lose.

Certainly a problem! and not one that's easily resolvable. Be interesting to see if it becomes a serious issue, and if anyone has any sort of solution that is workable.

That is awful. (The pension thing)

Jingle. In answer to the question Re. going private. I would, like a shot, it would be over his dead body with the OH.

Is that right Trisher? I'd be surprised if the BMA had agreed to that.
Yes well Jingle when your son was ambulanced to Wales I bet you would rather have a doctor with a tricky accent than no doctor.
There are not enough UK trained doctors to go around. They pick where they live and health service managers in less attractive areas have a struggle to fill their vacant posts. Specially in A and E where there is a serious shortage.
I'm sure we have all experienced wonderful non-Uk docs. Our GP is to die for. She always runs late and then gives you plenty of time when you do see her. And you can usually get an appointment the same day if it is one of the days she is there.
My friends OH went private recently. Paid for 2 appointments and some X rays etc. Private consultant said he was going to get him in for an anaesthetic injection in his hip. And then went off the radar. Nothing has happened and months are ticking past. No response to calls and emails. Hmm

rosesarered Following posts suggesting that this government is deliberately undermining the NHS, you said "The simple answer (as opposed to paranoid ones) MONEY".

Your comment ignored a number of measures the government has taken which have most certainly undermined the NHS, many of which have cost money rather than saved it. Paranoia is an unjustified suspicion - many people feel the evidence provides at least some justification for their suspicions.

I've had an 'interesting' year health wise so been involved in four areas of the NHS specialism. Every practitioner/professor/doctor/consultant I've seen has talked about the way this government is undermining and privatising the health service. A simple example is the podiatry service which to date has ensured that people with type 2 diabetes or RA for example, avoid developing serious and therefore expensive to treat, conditions. The podiatry service is well on the way to be privatised. The clinician I saw recently told me it is madness because long term, it will not be cost effective, as well as meaning the NHS is no longer free at the point of need and delivery.
Eloethan's post above is spot on.

Privatised is only cheaper if you can get staff on the cheap. Its worked in areas like rubbish collection. You get rid of the reasonably paid secure jobs and let Biffa Serco etc employ people on minimum wage without any security such as sick pay, pensions etc. They are there to make a profit. But lots of those bin-emptiers will be s
Not really a recipe for good health care is it. A podiatrist on minimum wage anyone? Or a nice cheap doctor who is willing to take lower than NHS rates?
Private hospitals pick and choose the simple straightforward and easily managed patients thus allowing them to keep costs down and make a profit. They also do not employ doctors. If you have a post operative emergency in a private hospital (few exceptions) you rely on the nurses to save your life.
My DDIL works in a private hospital in Australia and tells a tale or two about circumstances when its the wee small hours and nurses are concerned about patient, but not that keen to phone the surgeon at home, and even less keen to insist he/she comes in to see the patient.

Amazing that prof people like doctors, consultants,and the like have the time and the inclination to chat with their patients along political lines, ie. How the government is trying to undermine the NHS!
I too have had quite a few hospital visits this last year or two, and surprise, surprise, all talk has been purely professional and about symtoms, medication and so on.
Doctors and consultants may not like any changes, but doubt they talk to their patients about it. Money, or lack of it for the NHS is the cause, and I'm sorry, but there is paranoia out there sometimes.The truth is that the NHS has become so difficult to manage, treating so many more people and doing more and more procedures ( laser use for tattoo removal, birthmarks, IVF the list goes on.)It is probably likely ( more than likely) that it cannot go on in this way and major changes will have to be made.All governments, regardless of which Party politics, want to keep the NHS, and will go about it in the way that each one thinks is the best, but nobody is sat there rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of dismantling it.

Are you calling Iam a liar, roses? Maybe all the doctors she sees are in the NHA. There are lots of them.
I was in hospital in 2013 when the new health and social care act came in, and not many of the staff knew their conditions were changing. They did know about the waste of money in changing the letter heads in all correspondence, though.

You seem to have buried your head in the sands over the Tory government and the dismantling of the NHS. I cannot believe that anyone can still be so ignorant about it. Hunt wrote a book about dismantling it. So has Letwin. Osborne will not give it the money he knows it needs. He's blackmailing the NHS.
Major changes will have to be made? THEY HAVE BEEN!!!!!!
If the government and the junior doctors do not reach an agreement by 4 p.m. today, the doctors will be going on strike.

Here's an interesting article for you to not read.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/03/uk-set-worst-wage-growth-since-1920s-labour

Those who have shares or are paid advisors to private health care companies are certainly rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of destroying the NHS

Virgincare runs over 230 NHS services throughout the country, some in Oxfordshire, some in Cameron's constituency.
The profits are syphoned off through Virgin's other companies.

What a coincidence

Calm down djen. Some people really don't like their views being challenged! perhaps your own head is buried in socialist sand, hmmn?
The NHS may well have to change in the future, it probably can't lumber on as it is now.I am calling nobody a liar btw but if consultants are speaking in this way to 'all and sundry' I would be very surprised.