Cameron's Christmas message

nhap.org/what-you-can-do/information-bites/the-privatisation-of-our-nhs/

Roseq, I did not mean your lack of knowledge of private patients using NHS beds. I meant everyone's lack of knowledge.
NHS leaders have not put out statistics to keep us in the dark about it, but it happens. You need to wade through an awful lot of articles to find any worthwhile statistics. FOI requests get ignored because of "commercial confidentiality". I know because I have tried.

"Six elite hospitals in London attracted £153m from private patients last year, with the Royal Marsden pulling in £51m, up £6m on the previous year and accounting for 23% of total patient income. Next most successful was the Royal Brompton with private patient revenue of £29m. The figures point to a market developing for surgery as the NHS cuts back on what it offers the public."

23% of total patient income from the private sector at the Royal Marsden.
These figures are from 2012, before the health and social care act came in which allows them to make up to 49% from private patients.
A hospital only has 100% capacity, like any other business.
If nearly half it's income comes from private patients, how many fewer NHS patients can be treated in that time.

actually, very attractive faux Cotswold stone houses, and the ones for purchase [most already gone] in all prices.The local Council have bought a certain amount for social housing.It seems that no matter how many they build, people still want them.

houses to purchase and social housing, they are mixed in together.

Social housing or buy to rent

there is massive house building going on in Oxfordshire, our village has doubled in size this last year, and still more to come.Houses are getting built where there are jobs, money , and people want to live.

A good post JessM, perhaps coming from you it will be accepted

I have no problem with Oxfordshire, parts are beautiful,i made a reference to the area when speaking of the floods, and Cameron did give more support to this area than the north, so it was Cameron not the county.. Where people live is of no interest to me

I also said building homes should include those counties

There is a Nuffield report, published in 2014 on the 4 different health systems which concludes there are no major differences. Direct comparisons are difficult to make as priorities and demographics differ.
There are longer waiting times for some procedures in Wales, e.g. hip replacements, possibly because we have been badly affected by recruitment problems. This is in part due to changes made to immigration rules by the coalition government. Recruiting from outside the EU much more difficult than it was previously. It is hard to attract UK trained consultants to work somewhere like Aberystwyth or Bangor as these days, many of them can pick and choose where they work. In the last 2 years a large number of 60 year old consultants have retired early as changes to their pension scheme now encourage this.
There are protocols in place to manage patients on one side of the border accessing services on the other side. This makes sense because of the geography - much of the border you find that both sides are sparsely populated and if you live in Mid Wales (or just across the border) you are a long way from any major centres.
In parts of Mid Wales, for instance, the nearest major cancer centre may well be Birmingham - nearer than Cardiff.
Likewise if you live in parts of Shropshire, your nearest consultant maternity unit is probably Wrexham.

was trying to come up with reason that you are so against dear old Oxfordshire...... perhaps you would care to tell us?

Rosesarered, oh dear I am sorry but Oxford university, the county where the PM lives, affluent communities and you then include yourself in the list. That is some ego

grrr... foiled again!

At least I think I may have solved the mystery of who is publishing the South Wales Argus in Oxfordshire!
I think it could be you rosesarered, churning out copies from your back bedroom.
helped by other Gnetters who live in deepest, darkest Oxfordshire

#justcallmeagathachristie

PS some of my ancestors lived in Chipping Norton does that mean I'm posh?

but if they did that, they would have to travel back to England for fast NHS treatment.

I think the vitriol reserved for Oxfordshire comes from the fact that either, it has a world class University in it, or David Cameron in it [or possibly, me in it.]If none of those, then it just has a lot of people who possess money in it.They should all give their entire bloated salaries to the poor, and then go and live in South Wales.

Eloethan it's good of you to put me straight about some things connected to NHS [ even though I have never commented about them on this thread.]

djen I apologise for my 'lack of knowledge' and I know you have very kindly offered to help me to rectify that for me. I don't see how my (perceived-by-you) lack of knowledge of NHS England is contributing to its alleged downfall.
However, ignorant that I am, I do have first-hand knowledge of Welsh patients going over to England for excellent and prompt treatment which is not available in Wales, but do not have any evidence of English patients pouring over the border to avail themselves of the facilities in Welsh hospitals.

Yes, America does hold trials anniebach - unless a person was sent to Guantanamo Bay and incarcerated for years without charge.

America does hold trials

The USA has the death penalty and are our allies. I'm not supporting the death penalty anywhere in the world by the way.

ab, I have read condemnation of the Saudi execution you mentioned.

As for Prince Charles: tcha! BUT because of our "Western values", I can say that and not be executed or even charged with any crime (mainly because I haven't committed a crime of course).

rq, re your post from 23:03

nigglynellie You say that the NHS is a "bottomless pit" because of the increasing demands created by more and more complicated treatments. Surely that is a dilemma for all healthcare systems, and I seem to recall reading that many countries are having difficulties with funding healthcare, whatever method they use.

There are huge demands on the NHS but in June 2014 The I reported that the Washington-based Commonwealth Fund had analysed evidence from a vast array of sources, including the WHO, in preparing its report on health care across 11 countries, and on overall scorings the NHS ranked first, out-performing France, Germany and Canada.

The estimated cost of the re-organisation was £3 billion and in October 2014 The I reported that a number of Conservatives believed the re-organisation was its biggest mistake. The Telegraph reported in 2010 that John Nash, the Chairman of Care UK, had given £21,000 to fund the then shadow health secretary Andrew Lansley's private office. One wonders why he chose to do so.

Things are, as we know, going downhill fast now and I believe 11 hospitals are in great difficulties. One of the major contributing factors according to experts is the cut in social care budgets which has caused bed-blocking to hit record levels. Huge cuts in routine and crisis intervention services for people with mental health problems has also placed great stress on A&E departments. The freeze on staff recruitment has also meant that agency nurses and doctors are being used on a regular basis, at enormous expense.

rosesarered Senior members of the Conservative shadow cabinet - including Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove - publicly made disparaging statements about the NHS, even agreeing with the view that it was "no longer relevant in the 21st century". A hugely expensive and disruptive re-organisation was pushed through, despite David Cameron's pre-election assurances that that would not happen, and provisions in the Health and Social Care Bill force hospitals - at great cost - to put many services out to tender. The definition of paranoia is "unjustified suspicion and mistrust of people". I think, given all the above, there are certainly reasonable grounds for suspicion as to this government's long term objectives.

NHS patients treated in private hospitals do not get special treatment, what they do say is the staff are not stressed, not having to race around as staff in NHS Hodpitals. Perhaps the English parliament will give the Welsh Assembly more money, Cameron had no problem in dragging Wales into his election campaign , spouted f about poor health care - perhaps he reads the American newspaper , but no, he will want to do more Scotland and Wales bashing come May, such concern for people of the country he was elected to serve. But he doesn't do Ho our does he

Roseq, all you have to do is google it, but lack of such knowledge shows that the NHS is really in trouble, and that the tories are winning in the downgrading and privatisation of the NHS.

"NHS hospitals in England will be free to use almost half their hospital beds and theatre time for private patients under government plans.

A recent revision to the ongoing health bill will allow foundation hospitals to raise 49% of funds through non-NHS work if the bill gets through Parliament.

Most foundation trusts are now limited to a private income of about 2%.

The Health Secretary says the move will benefit NHS patients but Labour claimed it could lead to longer waiting lists.

The amendment to a clause of the Health and Social Care Bill was made shortly before Christmas by Health Minister Earl Howe."

This was in 2011. As you show, it does not benefit NHS patients, as they are put at the end of the waiting list.

Don't understand how private patients are taking up NHS beds, sorry, again - must be tired - do they get preferential treatment?. If everyone has paid NI then everyone should be able to access NHS treatment. Patients who go privately are in effect shortening the NHS queue, not taking up NHS beds.

As did Carwyn Jones's father who, I understand, had a hip operation done privately because he just couldn't stand the length of time it would be before the Welsh NHS could treat him.
A relief for Mr Jones Snr, one less off the waiting list for the Welsh NHS but an embarrassment for Carwyn.

I didn't realise Porthcawl was a tax haven for American millionaires. Must investigate. There is a good fish and chip shop there, perhaps that is what attracts them, or perhaps it's the caravan sites (holiday homes?).
Perhaps I'll get more on my ISA in a Porthcawl building society