Cameron - friend of Muslim women?

"It's crucial Muslim women learn English" Yasmin Allibah Brown. She is of the opinion that SOME Muslim men are hell bent on eradicating women's rights. I think I would rather listen to her opinion on this matter, she is an educated and informed Muslim women who believes to assimilate into a society the incomer must be prepared to take on the customs of that country, she is very anti veil and doesn't even like the headscarf being worn by school girls. I strongly agree with her assertion that there are Muslim women who are at the mercy of their menfolk and as such have little chance of being allowed to integrate.

Given the recent events in Cologne and other European cities there is a disconnect between a section of Muslim men and western society and the aspirations of women who they have a low opinion of. I don't think our politicians of any persuasion have effective solution to ingrained cultural behaviour and deep rooted misogyny.

I have always voted LibDem in the past, things have changed badly for them now though which is worrying.Which one is MY LibDem man? Farron? It wouldn't matter to me what any LibDem or Labour frontman said about this idea ( they are opposing, so a case of ' well 'e would wouldn't 'e'? )

Oh sorry I thought you were libdem. I stand corrected.

MY LibDem man?
I have no problem in endorsing ideas from any political party, if I think it a good one.

Your libdem man criticised Cameron rose

Any money for education of foreign Muslim non English speaking women is a good thing, it is finding the best way of access that could be difficult.

Cameron is not 'attacking Mulims in a sly way' that is just laughable.

Getting the mosques to promote a campaign for the wives is a good suggestion Nellie although not sure if they would agree to it.It could be at least tried though, write to Number 10.

I dont trust Cameron over this.
He singles out Muslim women for support with learning English to avoid isolation but this needs to be done sensitively and with regard for their cultural norms. The idea of deporting those who cannot learn well enough is evil.

Let's first try forcing all older Brits to learn adequate French or be deported.

I do not agree with these norms but to alienate the people you are trying to assist will get you nowhere. Particularly if the communities these people come from do not have good access to education and have norms where woman are traditionally isolated from men socially and the men are dominant in households. (The women walking ?7 paces behind her husband stuff.)

The west has caused a lot of resentment in the Muslim world recently by it's military interventions and that has likely to have fueled the idea that Islam is under serious attack form the west. To assume that forcing the women to learn English is going to prevent extremism is plain stupid.

This might be a pipe dream but try it.
Target English teaching efforts at the younger women coming over here from the countries affected. They stand a better chance of assimilating the British culture as they are younger, probably have better literacy than their mothers and are nearer the optimum ages for being able to learn new languages.
Then get the Mosques etc to promote campaigns to get the men to get their wives to go for English lessons.

I really dislike like the idea of women having to defer to men about these things but if it stands a better chance of working in the womans favour why not? Work with the system to change it.

Being quite aware of the popularity of Trump through Muslim attacks Cameron is now attacking Muslims but in a very sly way, he knows not to do a Trump so under the pretence of releasing Muslim women from alleged captivity he is threatening them , even threatening to separate mothers from their children if they do not learn English , he disgusts me ,

Yes I guess it's the May elections... And his wish to be seen to be "doing something" about terrorism.
If he really cared about integration or about the lives of Muslim women he wouldn't be suddenly doing this now. Not convinced there are any good intentions behind this beyond benefit to the Conservative government.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/118060

This is another idea of the government. If they actually manage to stay her for the 2.5 years and last for 5 years, they can then be sent home if they do not earn £35,000 a year. So any non- EU residents need to be in the top 10% of earners.
This comes in in April. Strangely the e petiton is now gaining a lot more signatures per hour.

He will continue to shout from the roof tops, elections in May,

Who knows ana - assessment by the tutor - or a terrifying interview with an immigration officer.

I've studied a number of languages - Latin, French, Spanish and Greek. All pretty straightforward. Pretty easy to get to GCSE standard. Currently learning a language with a very different, and very, um, rich grammar. Much harder. One in which the official written version very different to the spoken. Although I have been learning for 3 years I would not yet choose to be interviewed in that language, as it all goes to pieces when I feel nervous.
This experience has given me an increased respect for people whose first language is very unlike English but manage to learn good English as adults.

I was involved in trying to help women access ESOL classes about 12 years ago and they were in short supply then. The tutors were required to have a very high standard of qualification (equivalent roughly to what would be expected if you applied for a job in a sixth form college, teaching at A level standard). It was not easy then for women to find a class at a suitable level, that they could get to. For many they would need a creche (which cranks up the cost dramatically). And might well prefer an all-female class as they are not used to mixing with men outside their immediate circle.
The classes were partly or wholly funded by the adult education budget - remember the days when there were such things? Since then adult education funded/subsidised by local authorities has pretty much disappeared.

I think if the PM thinks this is a good idea then shouting about it from the rooftops may not be the best idea. But he seems to be courting headlines at the moment.

But that's his plan. I do not think they will get exemption because their family do not allow them access.
You are the one who mentioned the hidden minority. Now you are arguing with yourself.

And if they haven't been 'allowed access to it' (presumably by their family), how are they going to be 'tested'?

Two and a half years is surely more than enough to improve anyone's English. Nit-picking as usual.

The women who are not allowed access to it will be tested after 2.5 years and sent home because their English has not improved.
Party of the family?
Their husbands and children will be able to stay here.

Sorry, Jess, had not seen your third link to the fact that the government had cut funding in 2011.

Why have you posted that link twice, durhamjen?

Whilst some Muslim women are oppressed not all are and there are those who wish to continue with the life they have

'Some' being the operative word. Not many, and the women were all articulate and confident.

Of course their opinions are relevant, but what about the hidden minority (?) of Muslim women who aren't even allowed to leave their homes without a male relative and have no way of knowing about this initiative and wouldn't be allowed to access it anyway?

The spousal settlement visa, to which the new English language test applies, requires that the person with whom the new arrival is coming to live is already settled. This means all children born to a couple using a spousal settlement visa have British citizenship.

There is also no guarantee that children born Britain citizens would have a right to live in another country – meaning that in some cases mothers might be unable to take their children back to live with them in their country of origin.

Despite the new emphasis on forcing women to learn English Mr Cameron admitted that his government had actually previously cut funding for English-language tuition for migrants. He blamed the deficit for the policy.

“Yes, budgets did come down in the past because all budgets were under pressure because of the enormous deficit and the need to pay that down,” he told the same programme."

I do not think this is particularly inflammatory.
He admits that they cut the funding for language tuition for migrants. Now he's realised that it was a bad idea, but he's targeting the women, not the fact that he cut the funding.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35345315

What some Muslims think of the idea.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35345315

What some Muslims think of the idea.

The various influxes of people from different countries and cultures that we have had in the past eg Italian, German Jewish etc all learned English. It wasn't odd or special. Its just the sensible thing to do if you're going to live in another country. I don't know what's so special about some but not all Muslim women.

I was part of a volunteer scheme for teaching English to immigrants. I taught classes in centres, individuals in my home and I taught in other people's homes. I had a number of Muslim pupils whose husbands were only too happy for their wives to learn English, particularly because it enabled them to communicate with GPs, their children's teachers, etc. It was more convenient for them to be taught at their homes, not least because of childcare. It was a great scheme that worked really well. It was sad that it was eventually disbanded.