How will you vote in the EU referendum?

POGS re the Full Fact figures on the UK contribution to the EU. I am assuming that we both looked at the same feature, headed 'Is Our EU Membership Fee £55 million, dated 27March 2014'?

The figures you have quoted are those reported by Nigel Farage. Further down the same article, you find an analysis which shows that he was using a gross figure.

Full Fact concluded that '' In 2013 UK government gross contributions were £14 billion. After rebates and other receipts, our net contribution was £8.6 billion or about 24 million a day on Nigel Farage's framing.

If enough Scots were ever foolish enough to vote to break up the union we would not be allowed to use the euro or the pound and so would have to set up our own currency. That is an essential aspect of independence which the SNP could not face up to. With the collapse of the oil revenues and a falling population Scotland's currency would have no chance of maintaining its value and would be at the bottom of the international ratings table.

Thank goodness the the sensible majority who rejected the SNP's propaganda in the "once in a lifetime" referendum of 2014 saved us from that disaster and kept Scotland in the UK.

In this year's referendum we should vote to remain in the EU. We are better together - as Britons and as Europeans.

Never in the field of battle have so many 'Agreed with Dave'.

Where is Tony Benn when you want him. His prodigies have abandoned ship.

Yeah, ana I thought his final comment might ruffle a few feathers, but as far as I was concerned, it didn't negate his 10 point argument.

POGS I wasn't talking about your personal view of your oen family, I was referring to your response to an earlier post about people who had not had the opportunity to study abroad.
I think it is very important that we recognise that people have views beyond their personal experience. I have been at great pains to point out that my opinion goes way beyond the impact of Brexit on my immediate personal circumstances.

In short, the idea of leaving the EU is somewhere between bat-shit crazy and economic suicide.

Hmm...I'd be inclined to take the whole of Williamson's article with a large pinch of sale if that's his considered conclusion. It's obviously just his own opinion based on a very few points.

I will see the for and against staying in the EU but I am leaning towards staying in to protect jobs here we need businesses to help the economy gawd I am sounding like Mr Cameron but this is a serious matter and needs careful consideration .... on our own could be risky to be honest...

ana Well no, I don't think it is completely unbiased, but I've yet to read a completely unbiased article regarding the EU-ref.

What the article did was to bring together the major points that many people are concerned about, whatever their views (biases?).

I understand that you think it is biased Ana, but do you think there is evidence that the ten points are actually inaccurate?

Mamie

No I am not denying anyones children or grandchildren the opportunity to study in another European country!. My grandchild is 10 for all I know she may wish to do so in the future. It's how you and no doubt another half a dozen posters will read my words.

I am making the point that every person eligible to vote will have a different opinion of the EU and their lifestyle, opportunities to connect with all things European will vary. I am playing devils advocate.

If the debate is not to be widened from personal experiences, important though they are and quite rightly mentioned, then what's the point to debating. We might as well have a thread that asks 'Using only the words IN or Out" how will you vote in the EU Referendum.that

(re the link)

We will still be European, we live in a European Country.

I know that's a Fanny Anny point to make but I do think that a lot of the vote will come down to personal gut feeling.

For example . The Scotland Referendum had many posts which eluded to the fact the population of Scotland had a right to decide it's future. It was said millions of times over it was up to the people of Scotland to make it's financial arrangements, create it's own laws etc etc. It was wrong the Westminster Government could make decisions that effected Scotland hence the want for Independence. Yet now the UK is having a similar referendum there is no mention of Sovereignty or making our decisions for ourselves. The European Union is to the UK as Westminster is to the SNP, Plaid Cymru yet they are Europhile and happy to let the MEP's from 27 countries tell them what they can or can't do. I simply don't understand that cloice .

I refer back to the words of Melanie Phillips on being asked to respond to the term Project Fear.

"It may well work because fear has a powerful effect. It's true that leaving the EU brings uncertainty but that is the price of freedom. If you want certainty then by all means stay in the European Union. What are we certain of?. That we will never be able to control our immigration and we will never be able to control our own laws. That is the certainty of the Subservient."

I can't argue with that view and that is why I am so confused as my head says stay IN my heart says go OUT. I don't think I am alone in that thinking but which one wins I still don't know.

Not exactly an unbiased view, though, is it?

Crozziefan23. I don't know what Britishness is?

A good read for those wavering

Can't wait to put my cross against Leave.
I feel that the country would be much better away from the EU. We are not going to leave Europe. A lot of folk confuse the two and I feel that if we leave, other countries like Denmark may leave as well, leaving the others with a less gelled group. MI5 and MI6 and the other security services we have should still be able to liaise with their European counterparts to keep track of undesireables and we will have a tighter rein on our borders and who we deport. A lot of you will most likely disagree with me, but I love this country and feel that if we do not leave the EU now while we have the chance, a lot of our Britishness will disappear in our lifetimes. A sad thought.

POGS I am sure there are people who have not had the opportunity to study and work in the EU, but do you think they would really seek to deny the opportunity to their children and grandchildren? I find that surprising.
As far as I am concerned the main question facing voters in the referendum is "how can we be certain that the economy of the UK will thrive outside of the EU?". That is for the "outers" to prove as they are the ones wishing to change the status quo.
Thus far I have not heard a single convincing or evidence-based argument. It all appears to be based on nostalgia and wishful thinking.

Lavande

I am taking the figures from Full Fact also. Yet we post different figures, how odd.

As a woman I am grateful for EU legislation, for example on equal rights/pay in workplace, anti discrimination, maternity rights, parental leave, not to mention human rights. I would hate to see these rights watered down or removed if we come out of EU. There are so many "facts" being aired by both the stay and leave camps, but do you think when it comes to vote people will go with gut feelings based more on factors such as personal experience and inbuilt prejudices, which we all have? The result will affect my children and gcs more than me, and my perception is that young ones feel more European than their elders.

I would like to hear from the Eurosceptic government officials how they intend to spend the massive savings they expect to make from no longer being in the EU and how they intend to reduce the national debt.

From the Full Fact website, which is the most recent figures I can find, the UK contribution (2013) is quoted as £14 billion gross. After rebates, for example the Agricultural Guarantee Fund and development grants, the net total was £8.6 billion.

The UK national debt has just surpassed £1 trillion. How does that get reduced when there is likely to be a loss of confidence in investment in sterling and government bonds both at home and abroad?

I don't have the answers, but I await with interest to hear as the months go by.

daphnedill

We do pay £55 million a day (£20 billion a year) to the European Union but UKIP do not take into account the rebate which technically makes it £33 million a day. (£12 billion a year). It is a rotating door of beaurocracy and there are those making a lot of money just to implement it.

You posted previously that the UK youth will vote for IN and I posted a reply that gave a different view. You have mentioned several times now your daughters education and the EU. What do you think of the point I made in a previous post in response that the same generation of youths, young adults who have not had the opportunity to study , let alone study in another EU country , will see things in a totally different way.

There is a massive difference between living, working, studying in the EU to living on benefits, unemployed, uneducated, living in an aea of high immigration etc. I honestly do not believe they consider for a minute the EU as a good club to belong to and the UK has higher employment and welfare support than most of the other 27 countries.

The UK governments of 'any colour' have kept us out of the Euro since John Major signed the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and the UK was given an 'Opt Out'.

The Lib Dems are to my knowledge the only party who have ever wanted to be part of the Euro Exchange, albeit they changed their mind.

Out of interest is the Euro the choice of the SNP as they are totally committed to the European Union , I suppose if a miracle happened and we had Brexit, Scotland left the UK it would have to keep the pound unless it met the Convergence Critea to take on the Euro but it would probably not be able to so.

Yes Corbyn is a known Eurosceptic but he and John McDonnell have now become the Establishment and can no longer be back bench protest MP's who have voted against EU matters for years. I would like to hear more from the Labour Leave Campaign . I know Labour donor John Mills who gave £1.6 million to Labour since 2010 under Milliband is probably financially backing them , isn't he the Campaign Secretary?

I doubt Labour Leave will get a fair hearing but I would like to think at some stage we will get some unbiased ./ fair media coverage as it is not the case as far as I see things thus far.

Daphnedill in your hurry to blame Nigel Farage for the loss of our Fishing Industry, may I suggest you actually do some research on the subject.
I live in Cornwall where we have felt the effects. All our MPs except one are for coming out. Why do you think that is?
We all should stop trying the blame game and small individual gains and losses and focus on the big picture.
Do we want to be ruled by the EU or by ourselves. Who has our interests at heart? It is as simple as that.

thatbags, I'm sure some of the regeneration money does come from the UK. The point I was making was that it's not all a one way street. We get back quite a bit of the money we pay to the EU, in addition to the advantages to our economy in general. The £55million a day UKIP is so fond of quoting is extremely misleading.

alima, I don't understand what you mean. I think it's very unlikely that Corbyn will ever be PM. In what way do you think the Labour Party would let the EU walk all over us?