How will you vote in the EU referendum?

Yes, well done Gill57, and I thought your comments were interesting.

I too feel not 100% sure how I will vote but I'm leaning much more towards staying. The main things that the out campaign seems to be concerned about is immigration and "red tape", neither of which are major preoccupations for me.

I also worry that some people will not feel informed enough to vote and, as Wilma says, that would be terrible as this is a matter of vital importance.

That would be interesting, Wilma; to fine those who do not vote is the only way to ensure that people do vote. However, the government has just got rid of 800,000 voters by changing the electoral register.
If everybody is made to vote, isn't that just exchanging one set of rules for another? Won't it just make people vote out just to be bloody minded?
How would you know?
Sorry, lots of questions.
Another one. Is there anyone on here who did not vote in the last EU referendum because they did not see the point?

GillT57 I take my hat off to you for wading through the whole thread! I couldn't agree more about a lot of people not finding out more for themselves before making up their minds and that does concern me for a couple of reasons (I didn't get the impression you were confused btw).

You mentioned one them - Nigel Farage. When the run up to the referendum starts, the serious campaigning will also start and we'll be hearing soundbites from NF and his party that I am sure will aim to push a culture of fear amongst the electorate.

The other concern I have is some people will not bother voting because they don't know what to believe or they don't see the point. I know this happens with any election, but to have a low turnout for what will probably be the most important vote in their lifetime seems wrong.

Marmight, is that the David Charter who writes for the Times?

That's why I asked how are you going to sort it all out, Gill.
The bit about the membership of groups is a problem. The no campaign can't distance itself from Ukip as that is the raison d'etre of Ukip, I would have thought. So you have your answer just with that one paragraph.

The only reason that Ukip have MEPs is so that they can vote against anything that is advantageous to the EU.

I am not just choosing based on a list and certainly did not intend to confuse anyone. I thought this was a discussion forum and that was what I was doing, discussing my dilemma and airing a few thoughts. Thanks for the reading suggestion marmight I will have a look and see if it helps with my decision. I think this is too important to just go on gut instinct.

Who is GillT57 confusing? No one should be put under pressure to make a decision without weighing up the pros and cons to their own satisfaction.

So how are you going to sort all that out, GillT?
You can't just have a list of pros and cons and choose the longest.
Some of them are more important than the others.
After all that and confusing yourself and others, what's your gut instinct?

I am just ploughing my way through 'Europe - In or Out, Everything You Need to Know' by David Charter which I downloaded onto the Kindle. This may be of help to the undecided like me (along, of course, with comments from this thread)

I have read this thread through from start to finish....phew. I am truly uncertain about whether to vote to stay or leave,

I dislike rule by unelected civil servants, the MEP system appears to be just a sop to democracy.
I dislike the huge and unnecessary costs of running the massive premises, and all this nonsense of moving between Brussels and Strasbourg.

BUT, I like the idea of having another level of protection for human rights, employment law, health and safety as many of the current government have been on record dismissing human rights legislation as nonsense, mocking the system with urban myth and reports of the more bonkers cases to illustrate their case.

I am terrified of the impact of TTIP and even more terrified that most people, including those able to vote on this very important matter dont even know what it is.

I will do as much research and reading as I can before I make my decision, but fear that many will not.

I do wish that someone would point out to Mr Cameron that the vote is on whether we wish to remain part of Europe or not, the vote is not on the benefits system in UK and whether EU migrants should have working tax credits. There are far more important issues than this and I fear this may be a smoke screen for what is really being negotiated.

I also look at who represent the in and out camps, and rightly or wrongly, the membership of these groups will have some impact on my decision. On this basis, the no campaign are going to have to work very hard to convince me that they are not all like Nigel Farage. I would suggest that if the NO campaign wants to have any credibility, they cut any links with groups like UKIP, Britain First etc.

Interestingly, although he represents a constituency which does a great deal of trade within Europe ( geographically very close), my Conservative MP is staunchly anti-Europe, I will be interested to hear why this is if he deigns to share his view with his electorate ( in a safe seat he rarely canvases in general elections)

I would also like free movement for me and my family, freedom to choose to retire to France if I wish, but this is a minor consideration for me, and I dont think that the probability of long queues at airports if we leave is a major factor in my decision.

Sorry for lengthy post, but finding this a useful place to air my uncertainties, and very interested to read everyone else's posts, even those who stamped off in a huff after taking offence where none was intended!

As Jonathan Swift pointed out, the person best suited to running the country may be the person least willing to do so.

It's strange, really, as they are an amalgam of most European countries, plus many other countries around the world.
You'd think they'd know better they would have more choice of candidates from such a huge population.

USA would be terrifying. Think of the struggle to get decent health care for all, the gun laws (lack of), the lack of environmental protection (Poor Flint!!), the terrible infrastructure that has had so little investment and the extremely patchy public education.
Oh and the really bad employment laws - no paid maternity leave, not much annual leave from work...
Americans themselves can often be warm and friendly but many aspects of their country - no thanks!

No choice at all, trisher.
Could you imagine if Trump got elected. Doesn't bear thinking about.

The question is, when will the referendum be? I can't see Cameron getting anything worthwhile out of EU leaders, he's asking for little enough in the first place, and they haven't even agreed that!

So would that be a new thread? Which would you rather stay in the EU or become a part of the USA (whatever the number!)?
There's a choice for you!

Anniebach Hope you can find your way home

Anyway, trisher says 55th! so we're both wrong

Jamila, I failed O'level geog

Doesn't bear thinking about trisher.

We are proposed as 55 in this - Cuba gets it before us!!!
io9.gizmodo.com/5915419/the-55-states-of-america-the-5-places-that-could-become-us-states-in-your-lifetime

52nd state of America 51st?

And mine was a red herring wittering on about Winter Watch pointing out that recycling of food waste would deprive gulls of food which would mean a decline in their numbers. Some people may say good-oh to that
It was following on from someone's post about EU directives about recycling.

We'll ALL have problems with America if Trump gets in

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/31/electoral-register-loses-estimated-800000-people-since-changes-to-system

Nearly a million fewer people have the vote anyway. I wonder if they have realised yet.

As evidenced by our nuclear deterrence- sorry, their nuclear deterrence.

We would become the 52nd state of America, we jump when they say jump now