Embedded License of Domestic Abuse to Women in Religion Through the Eyes of a German Refugee From Yemen

TerriBull. Thank you for that. It says it all, particully the part about when you become an adult.

Good post TerriBull

Whilst I wouldn't disagree that women are under represented in politics and in the higher echelons of the professions generally, I don't think that we can make a comparison between that and the subjugation and derision that some are on the receiving end by a section of men that have been schooled in the most draconian beliefs in the way women are viewed.

Religions tend to be patriarchal in their structure and doctrines, my own, Catholicism, is not an exception, but where we tend to part company from Islam, happily most of us make up our own mind pretty freely as adults as to whether we will continue with what was imposed on us as children. Half of my background is from a conservative Mediterranean culture and this is all fresh in my mind from a recent family funeral when I had a discussion such as this with cousins and found most of us are indeed now lapsed, but felt over controlled as children by a religion that, at the time, before the scandals came to light, allowed very little dissent.

Islam of course encompasses many different people, and some will wear their religion very lightly, my husband plays golf with a couple of Iranian friends, who, although Muslim are completely at ease with life here in England, so much so they make no secret of the fact that they enjoy wine with their meal like so many of us do. Their wives are equally emancipated and are not "under the thumb" It is of course wrong to put all Muslims into the same category, much depends on where they are from, the education they receive and how the society they have left treats their women. Nevertheless, we would have to live in a vacuum to know that things are changing rapidly in Europe due to the recent migration. To an extent there is a section from the newly arrived that threaten the established way of life, I don't think it's racist to challenge beliefs that treat women as second class citizens, or to want to deport those who have sexually molested women in public places. If these men are not dealt with it's inevitable there will be a back lash they must fall in line with the parameters of society here in the west and we must not compromise our values to accommodate them.

And seeing that most of Syria is rural, what are you going to get?
It doesn't need Einstein to work it out.
If some of us are so wrong in our views on some immigrants, how come Angela Merkel is rethinking their policy of 'come one, come all'?

In fact the status of Muslim women varies tremendously in this country too. From MPs, to business women, to students, to housewives, to those who are virtual prisoners in their own home through lack of language skills or mediaeval male attitudes.

We are also talking about a country where the compulsory school age ends at 11. The status of women also varies hugely, those living in large cities being far more westernised than those living in rural areas.

The rise of fundamentalism is also changing the status of women.

It seems from my extremely limited experience that integration is a big issue. Living in the South we have a tiny indiscernable population of people following the Muslim faith. However along our road we have a house that seems to rented to the Social Services (we assume) which houses Muslim families usually with a relatively large family iof 6 children or more. They stay for a few years a d then move on. Try as we might by speaking in the street, asking the mother to coffee morning's etc or other children asking the Muslim children to play, there has never been one instance of joining in any activity.
It is so sad as people are more than willing to take the family into the community but are always rebuffed.

Starbird where do you get the idea that Syrians fall into this category: "Moslems (not in UK as yet) whose values are based on a relatively narrow interpetation of the Koran untempered by a wider knowledge of world philosophy" Where on earth??? It's long been a relatively well educated and liberal country
Cast your eyes over this Wiki entry on stars of women there. There's certainly room for improvement but it ain't the worst by a long chalk.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Syria

I not that in Syria women in parliament =13%
We have only recently exceeded that in the UK:

191 women MPs were elected at the 2015 General Election, 29% of all MPs and a record high. Prior to 1987 women had never been more than 5% of MPs. 450 women have been elected to the Commons since 1918, nine less than the current number of male MPs.

And it is not racism to say so.That word is bandied about so much it has lost its true meaning.I consider myself a nice person, I don't care what anyone looks like,I have real friends,and relatives of all colours.If they are nice or not,it's nothing to do with what they look like.But I,and I know many more,many more than the media will tell you about,feel their home is being invaded,not only that, but some of the invaders are trying to change my home.Would'nt anyone feel threatened and worried?
Personally, I believe (and nobody will convince me otherwise) the powers that be have a reason for allowing it,I'm no where near clever enough to know why,but I know some scullduggery going on.

Starbird. Very good post.

Aye, that's the crux of the present situation. The greater part of this influx of refugees are those from Syria fleeing Assad. The world sat back and let it happen because it did not want to repeat the mistakes of Iraq. Yet, we did intervene in Libya and the situation is spiralling out of control there too.

I think the seeds of this problem were sown a long time ago.

In Tuesday's Telegraph: Andrea Nahles, the social security minister for Germany, has said:
“Refugees who come here looking for shelter from us and seeking to start a new life must abide by our rules and values. .......... We will cut benefits to those who show that they do not want to integrate.
“And in my view that should also include willingness to take part in language courses and abide by the basic rules of our society.”

We are at an important crossroads. So far in Modern Europe we have welcomed genuine refugees and shown respect for the right of people to follow their religion. Now, due to the sudden influx of a large volume of Moslems (not in UK as yet) whose values are based on a relatively narrow interpetation of the Koran untempered by a wider knowledge of world philosophy or history, we are, or will be forced to choose which values we hold most dear - human rights or human lives? The answer was that we should never have let the situation come to this, the situation with Assad (allegedly) using chemical weapons and now with ISIL rampantly killing so called deviants should have been nipped in the bud by the world community. Instead of which they take years just to agree to talk about it. Meanwhile thousands suffer, starve and/or die at sea, and fit young men arrive in Europe and expect the world on a plate. I agree with Marmark1.

Marmark1. I agree with every word you say, but.... Not the word frightened. I'm not frightened I'm bloody angry.

Believe me ladies,I am no kind of racist. I deplore bullying of any kind.People are concerned,many people,people of all colours.They are concerned that their homelands and culture is being taken.They are concerned for their way of life.They see what life is like in far away countries,and they are frightened.
Have they reason to be, It looks that way sometimes.

Sorry, I confused Marmark and Marmight for a moment.

Freedom to wear what you like and drink alcohol when you want to is not a license to be completely irresponsible and expect someone else to make your informed decisions for you.

We have freedom to walk on our mountains wearing flimsy shoes and thin unwaterproof clothes, but some people do that without regard for the weather conditions and set out without enough time to get safely home again. When they are caught in a storm as the light fades, the mountain rescue teams turn out to find them, because that is what they do, but the "foolish virgins" walkers don't get a lot of public sympathy

Marmark1. Love it. Why is the race card always played when people speak the truth.
As has been said before. That's why the horrendous abuse happened in Rochdale etc, and still going on. There's none so blind as him who will not see.

I said that men must accept responsibility for their behaviour Eloethan ... did you not read that?

Equality please. Both men and women have to accept responsibility for their behaviour.

Marmight is not being racist. She is saying what is true. There is an element of Islam which believes it should rule wherever it settles. A chilling prospect, and one which must be kept in mind when blanket hospitality is still offered.

A link Hijrah:Migration for the Cause of Allah
"As Islam is the religion of dignity and authority, it was impossible to think of any Muslim submitting himself to the disbelievers; indeed it is forbidden for a Muslim to go to live amongst them and acknowledge their authority over him, because his presence amongst them would make him feel weak and isolated, and, then he would become docile and apologetic before them. He would first be called upon to approve of them, and then to follow them. But Muslims should be filled with morale and confidence, they should be leaders, not followers. They should hold the reins of power; no power should be above them but that of Allah."

Do you know what Eloethan,I couldn't give a s--- what you or a few other people here think of me, because believe me I wouldn't spend the time of day with certain people.As far as being a racist,that's laughable,in fact that's something certain people shout when they're guilty.

The Sharia courts are not part of our legal framework. The negotiations and decisions that they arrive at may be in opposition to our own equality laws and unfavourable to women.

I agree, eloethan, and I think the only way round this is for the decisions of religious courts to have no legal standing at all. There should be one law for all, regardless of religion or lack of it.

I don't understand the statement that "women have to accept responsibility for their behaviour". My feeling is men must accept responsibility for their behaviour. It is not illegal to wear a short skirt or get drunk - it is illegal to sexually assault someone.

The Sharia courts are not part of our legal framework. The negotiations and decisions that they arrive at may be in opposition to our own equality laws and unfavourable to women.

There is a similar system with Beth Din, Jewish Courts. Under Jewish law only a husband can grant a divorce (a get). A wife has no such right and may be "chained" indefinitely and unable to re-marry.

In theory, Jewish and Muslim women can refuse to accept the decision of these courts or by-pass them altogether and instead go direct to our own civil courts in order to seek a legal resolution to marital/family issues. However, it is said that some women feel pressured to use these religious courts. I don't think they're a great idea but I'm not quite sure how people can be discouraged from using them.

As to the your comments Marmark, I don't think they constitute reasoned debate and I would call them racist.

Yep. That's the one ja.

It is written,were ever the Muslim settles,he will rule.
For me,the thought of it is,well let's just say,I'm glad I won't be around then.
Genuine people who came here to better their lives,have generally enhanced the country.But the influx of people over the last several years is very wrong for any country.

An unreasonable attack on Starbird for expressing her thoughts. I can certainly empathise with Muslim parents who fear the "freedoms" that UK girls are sometimes given.
And maybe before some of you get even more anti-Islamic please remember that UK Muslim women are not necessarily being beaten and abused by male members of their families any more than non-Muslims. Anyone would think that males in other ethnic groups are blameless in this regard.
And that there are big variations between different groups of Muslims and their customs, just as there are between Catholics, Methodists, Evangelical African Christians and Plymouth Brethren.