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Should bureaucracy or compassion be our priority

(85 Posts)
NanaBridget Fri 19-Feb-16 09:08:51

I often wonder about whether the UK civil servants put bureaucracy before compassion.

For instance today's headlines about the 92 gran

A Home Office decision to deport a 92-year-old widow who wanted to spend the “end of her days” with her only child in Britain could kill the pensioner, her daughter has said.
Myrtle Cothill, who was born under the British flag in 1924 and whose father fought for Britain in the first world war, has been ordered to travel to Heathrow on Tuesday for a flight to South Africa.
Mary Wills, her daughter, told the Guardian that officials said she should go back to South Africa, where she has no family, and seek help from the Red Cross.
The pensioner has fought a campaign since last year to stay with 66-year-old Wills in Poole, arguing she has no support in South Africa and is independent from the state with her £300-a-month pension.
“My mother is in a terrible state. She is just shaking and shaking,” said Wills. “It is so cruel. We don’t know what to do.” She added that officials said the government would pay for her flight to South Africa and give her “£1,000 to tide her over”.
“My mother gets a private pension from my late father so she wouldn’t qualify for assistance from Red Cross. But she should be with her family. The heartbreak of leaving us at her age could finish her off and finish me off, too,” said Wills.
“If she doesn’t go to the airport on Tuesday, they will probably take her to detention centre. That will be signing her death certificate,” she warned.
In December, Cothill said: “I don’t want to go. I’ve got nobody there and I am not well enough to travel. I’m very upset. I’m very old. I’m 92. I want to live with my daughter for the end of my days.”
Cothill, whose husband died more than 40 years ago, survived on her own in South Africa with the support of her friends and her local church. But as she got older and her community thinned, it became apparent to her that she needed to be cared for by her daughter in Britain. She has an enlarged heart and poor hearing and has lost the sight in one eye
The Home Office says that Cothill’s application was rejected as her “condition was not deemed to be life-threatening” and that “suitable medical treatment” was available in her country of origin.She has been in Dorset since February 2014 and made an application to the Home Office for leave to remain the country as an adult dependent on human rights grounds.

Sent from my iPad

Maggieanne Sat 20-Feb-16 11:42:28

Not good, when you see a picture in the newspaper of a grinning black woman with the keys to her million pound house for her non-working husband and many children, two of whom, I believe are disabled. They even had the cheek to say they didn't want to stay in Coventry but live in London!. I truly believe that people are scared to say anything because they will be called racist but it's time we stood up for common sense now. What will this woman cost us compared to the people that come over here and bring their disabled dependents and still keep on producing more and more children! I for one am sick of this, where we are not allowed to say what is on everyones' mind.

Maggieanne Sat 20-Feb-16 11:47:32

Monica, I won't waste my time emailing my MP, Caroline Spelman, she is a total tory brown-nose and if she is told to do something by Cameron she will do it. She only cares about the party line and does nothing to help anyone but herself and her party. I've lost count of the times I've emailed her about many things and all I got was weasel words. (sorry weasels everywhere, I'm sure you're much nicer than her).

Maggieanne Sat 20-Feb-16 12:17:03

There is a petition on Change.org if anyone wants to sign, I would urge you to do so, please. No-one will come after you if you sign but it can make all the difference. All you need to do is put myrtle in the search and the petition will come up. These petitions can make people change their minds and do the right thing. It's not asking much, but it could help this poor woman!

durhamjen Sat 20-Feb-16 12:22:35

www.change.org/p/the-government-ailing-92-year-old-facing-forced-removal-from-uk

Over 80,000 signatures.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/19/deportation-of-92-year-old-widow-postponed-after-public-outcry

Anniebach Sat 20-Feb-16 12:24:28

Maggieanne, what does the fact that the woman you speak of grinning and saying she didn't want to stay in Coventry is black have to do with It? And I think you mean - what is on some people's minds and not everyone's mind

durhamjen Sat 20-Feb-16 12:34:15

You do realise that this is what Cameron has been working for the past couple of days, to be able to keep foreigners out of the UK.
I do not know why, because they can obviously do it already.

I like the way the judge says that neither the mother or her daughter is "a person of credit".
What a lovely turn of phrase.

Maggieanne Sat 20-Feb-16 12:43:52

Anniebach, this family came here and have been given everything they want, whereas many of those that were born here are pushed to the back of the queue. It's well known that many Londoners, born and bred are being pushed out to parts of the country that they know nothing of, yet some can come here and demand to live exactly where they want. Doesn't seem fair to me. And yes, a lot of people are thinking, and now saying out loud, enough is enough!

Pamish Sat 20-Feb-16 12:51:16

Yes but. They lied. She came here in a visitor's visa, which lasts two years. They have not made any effort to get leave to remain, so the visa has run out. Did they think no-one would notice?

So we have one set of press responses to an older white woman, and another set of responses to anyone without these valuable credentials. She does not have a British passport.

I don't want anyone to enter the Yarlswood Detention Centre, but if the press were to follow her there, things might change for the other equally deserving old women detained there pending deportation appeals.
.

Anniebach Sat 20-Feb-16 13:00:00

The colour of the woman's skin has not a thing to do with it, you could have given detail of the family without reference to - a black woman

durhamjen Sat 20-Feb-16 13:00:04

Nobody should be in Yarls Wood. There shouldn't be a Yarls Wood.

Anyway, they did apply for leave to remain.

"She has been in Dorset since February 2014 and made an application to the Home Office for leave to remain the country as an adult dependent on human rights grounds.

Cothill’s application to remain with her family was rejected by the first tier tribunal. An application for leave to the court of appeal was rejected by the upper tribunal in October 2015. In its reasons for the decision, it said that Cothill had “obtained entry to the United Kingdom by deception, and that she and her daughter arranged their affairs with the deliberate intention of making her removal difficult.”

The tribunal vice-president CMG Ockelton said: “Evidently neither of them is a person of credit and there is no reason why they should be believed … about the appellant’s circumstances.” "

Perhaps you should get your facts right.

durhamjen Sat 20-Feb-16 13:02:27

As she was born in South Africa when it was under British rule, and her husband fought for the British army in the war, perhaps she should have been given a British passport.

Maybe some people on here should show more compassion.

grove1234 Sat 20-Feb-16 13:41:39

her family can always return with her .to ensure she has company and is cared for .

Ana Sat 20-Feb-16 13:43:46

Her daughter's husband has Parkinson's Disease and requires care. And where would they live even if they did all go to SA?

Anniebach Sat 20-Feb-16 13:49:39

Such compassion - not

annifrance Sat 20-Feb-16 13:57:42

Just caught up with this news item. I am so shocked that anyone could possibly consider sending this lady back to SA. And grove 1234 are you totally heartless?

I have signed the petition. Endorse contacting MP who is a human face one hopes. I have had very satisfactory results in the past with the help of my local MP who didn't once ask if I voted for him or canvass for my vote. he did what he was supposed to do as an MP and looked after his constituents against the ghastly beaurocracy of the local council. I just hope that this family's MP is not the awful sounding Caroline Spelman.

Glad the flight has been cancelled and pray that she is given permanent leave to stay in Britain.

durhamjen Sat 20-Feb-16 13:58:43

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nigerian-student-with-serious-illness-says-decision-to-deport-him-from-uk-is-death-sentence-a6884926.html

Here's another one who needs compassion.

Pamish Sat 20-Feb-16 14:02:20

Looking forward to seeing the rush of Gransnetters joining up to the Movement for Justice.

Mrsdof Sat 20-Feb-16 14:04:11

Totally disgusting. This government has no compassion whatsoever. I have signed the petition and posted it on Facebook.

durhamjen Sat 20-Feb-16 14:25:59

Do not need to belong to organisations to support them, Pamish; Hope not Hate, Right to Remain, Amnesty - all compassionate organisations.

durhamjen Sat 20-Feb-16 14:30:19

"I have never welcomed the weakening of family ties by politics or pressure" - Nelson Mandela.
"He who travels for love finds a thousand miles no longer than one" - Japanese proverb.
"Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence." - Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
"When people's love is divided by law, it is the law that needs to change". - David Cameron.

Note the last one.

pambo99 Sat 20-Feb-16 15:30:14

Compassion!

pambo99 Sat 20-Feb-16 15:30:28

Compassion!

Blinko Sat 20-Feb-16 15:41:48

I've signed the petition. Compassion is needed here. We read enough about criminals demanding their human rights, and getting what seems to most people to be disproportionately favourable treatment as a result. Time to apply some common decency to this poor woman. Come on, Mrs May, do the right thing!

WilmaKnickersfit Sat 20-Feb-16 16:04:25

I am uneasy about this case and think there's far more to it than we've heard from the family and the officials will be forbidden from talking about individual cases.

The notice telling the family she must return to SA says she is not a person of credit, in fact this has been said about both mother and daughter. Now that's not normal. Normally the mother would be allowed to join her daughter here in the UK, so there's something else going on.

I agree that people are deported every day where the rules override compassion, and the truth is every person hopes the media takes up their cause.

Usually I am a big softy, but I am not signing the petition. This is not about bureaucracy or compassion.

Elegran Sat 20-Feb-16 16:45:20

Compassion is good, but there are usually reasons for bureaucratic decisions. As Wilma says, we are hearing the family side, but those who decided this are not allowed to tell us the reasoning behind it.

"Not a person of credit" is an interesting phrase. I wonder exactly what is implied by it? I think I shall look it up to see whether there is any enlightenment.

Ten minutes later - As far as I can see, "a person of credit" does not mean that their bank account is in credit, but that they are credible - to be believed. The judge does not seem to have found the lady or her daughter to be credible in their evidence, but that her presence here in somehow under false pretences.

That is only my interpretation, and I would like to know more, but I don't think that is likely at the moment.