How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

The correct way!

If we leave the EU we won't need MEPs. I am surprised that so little has been made of the MEP gravy train. Not only do we pump billions into the EU each year but we pay these 'representatives' vast sums just for merely turning up.

This, from a couple of years ago. No reforms have been made since.

"Treasury figures have shown that the annual cost of a MEP sitting in the EU assembly is £1.79 million each a year, which is three times the cost of a Member of Parliament in the House of Commons."

And expenses? It's obscene. This from the same article.

"But the big difference between MEPs and MPs is the generous, or even lavish, expenses and allowances – entitlements that are worth over £415,000 a year each.

One allowance for parliamentary assistants to work in the Brussels or local office of an MEP is worth £213,000 a year.

The allowance has been dogged by scandal with MEPs funnelling large amounts of cash to individuals, often relatives or political party cronies, who have sometimes done little work.

Over a dozen British MEPs use a loophole, known as "la clause anglaise", to pay close relations, including wives and children, from the parliamentary assistant allowances.

The assistants are the best paid in the world with earnings of up to £78,000 a year and there are plenty of staff working for British MEPs of all parties, including Ukip, on salaries of £60,000 or more.

As well as staff allowances, MEPs are able to earn up to £91,000 a year in "daily subsistence" and "general expenditure" expenses without having to provide any receipts or proof of expenditure – a practice that would not be tolerated in Westminster.

The "subsistence allowance" or "per diem" of £258 is paid in cash without any proof of expenditure, when MEPs sign an attendance register in Brussels or the Strasbourg seat of the parliament.

The payment is known as "sign in and slope off" among the more cynical MEPs and is notorious for allowing them to pocket the money without staying in the EU assembly, or even Brussels, to do any work."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10777351/MEPs-second-pension-gravy-train-pays-and-perks-of-MEPs.html

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/27/meps-final-payoff-157000

Not just gravy is it, more a full roast dinner with all the trimmings! Totally outrageous amounts of tax payers money.

No wonder Kinnock and Mandelson are desperate to stay in!!! As they say, a nice little earner!!!!!!! Also ukip and the Tories, but then they're inherently wicked, not like the socialists!

Yep, look at all those snouts in the trough. I think I am right in saying we have 70+ MEPS?

I see the EU is an elite club, all paid from public money that should be going to finance education, welfare, health care and infrastructure, and the rest used to pay down debts in the member nations. It's not though, is it? Look at what's happening in Europe right now, and how many poor countries there are. It's no wonder people - both asylum seekers and economic migrants - want to get to Germany, the UK and Scandinavia.

The billions we are ploughing into Brussels - and Strasbourg - to pay for this elitist, privileged group and their expenses and travelling costs could be spent in so many better ways, here in the UK.

I do not see how the taxpayer is getting a good deal, nor do I see the infrastructure of the UK improving from our membership of the EU.

Durhamjen

You made a statement that if we were not in the EU we would have TTIP anyway.

Assuming the UK and the USA bilaterally were negotiating 'the exact same' TTIP Agreement as the EU Commission has chosen, it would have to be voted on by our democratically elected MP's in the Westminster Parliament. You make your statement on nothing more than a presumption! We may or may not have a bilateral agreement but at least the vote and final decision would not be decided by the other 27 countries in the EU, it would be for our MP's alone. Sovereignty.

You give the impression that the Socialist and Green 'grouping' in the EU Parliament have somehow exposed TTIP. You might be interested to know, or maybe not, that UKIP are against TTIP. It's easy to find Nigel Farage speaking about it. You probably knew that but others may not.

My question stands as of 11.31am.

Thanks POGS, I didn't know, but now I do its made me feel even more that we should be leaving this outfit with its unaccountable members. All I see is Greece and the fact that much more of this economic shenanigans along with everything else, will topple the house of cards and us with it. A very alarming prospect!

My MEP can explain it in much more detail and better than I can, POGS.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jude-kirtondarling/ttip_b_8415508.html

"I am a member of the International Trade Committee, the Industry, Energy and Research Committee and the Petitions Committee in the European Parliament. I was brought up in Middlesbrough, am a Quaker and passionate about the North East, its social and industrial heritage and future. With 15 years fighting for workers’ rights and sustainable industrial policies I have a wealth of experience which I use to fight for a good deal for the North East in the European Parliament. "

Her credentials for it.

Italy, Spain, Greece have big financial problems and high unemployment. Germany is is trouble because of the flood of immigrants. Can anyone tell me why we should support all of Europe. Great Britain has high employment and doing well. Labour, Kinnocks and Blairs obviously hAve more yo lose if we leave the Eu.

Did anyone see Niel Kinnock trying to drum up support in Wales. Let's just say, he didn't get the answers he wanted, shame.
Andy Burnham has said that although he will be voting to stay ( good lord)
He feels that people will vote to leave.

What Niel Kinnock couldn't understand, was, the EU had thrown the peasants some crumbs, and he expected them to be forever grateful.
Well guess what, Niel, people are waking up and realising that they have been shafted.

Why good lord?
Why shouldn't Burnham vote to stay in?
Surely he is warning about leaving, to make sure those who want to stay in get out and vote. Nothing wrong with that.
Again, it depends on the newspaper report you read as to the spin put on it.

Luckylegs, The UK has high employment, because there are so many people on part-time or zero contract hours. The UK has low productivity, increasing debt and is not doing at all well once spin and lies are analysed (unless you happen to be wealthy in the first place). Where on earth are you getting this analysis from?

A poll of the Confederation for British Industry (CBI) has revealed that only 5% of members support Brexit, 95% wishing to remain in the EU.
www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/15/cbi-member-survey-reveals-huge-support-for-remaining-in-eu
I am not sure how widely this will be reported in some newspapers so include the link for information.

Correction, that should have read 5% leave, 80% remain, 15% undecided.

Can someone tell me what this Reformed EU is? If it's just the puny agreement Mr C recently achieved and which may never happen, it's not exactly a reformation.

I have no doubt the CBI would vote IN as it is the body for big business'. How independant can the organisation be if it receives funding from the EU?. The CBI have a track record of making poor decisions over Gold Standard, ERM and the Euro.

The CBI is a business lobbying organisation and has received some bad press over the credibility of the poll at one time . I am not saying it is a body that should be ignored, on the contrary it is a body that will hold a lot of sway but I think it needs to produce some facts and figures that cannot be challenged before the referendum . The voter must have confidence in the material organisations such as the CBI provide. I am not disputing the poll figures but pointing out the CBI is an important body but it will probably not be impartial .

No I am sure the CBI is not impartial, but as major employers and creators of a significant part of the nation's wealth, I think you have to take account of what they are saying. Lots of people receive funding from the EU including the poorer regions of the country, farmers and scientific researchers; it surely doesn't invalidate their opinions?
I think the problem about "facts and figures" is that so much is uncertain, but I am still not hearing anything that remotely resembles a coherent post-exit economic plan from the Brexiters.
I think any talk of how things were before 1976 is pretty irrelevant as the generators of economic wealth, in particular manufacturing industries, are in a completely different place and markets for trade have changed out of all recognition.
As I have said before, it is up to the people who wish to leave the EU to make the economic case; they are the ones seeking to change the status quo.

I shall be voting OUT. I travel around a lot and speak to lots of different people, mostly early retiree's and oap's and all say they want out of the EU. Most because of immigration from within the EU.

Funnily enough today's Daily Politics had a sensible debate between the CBI Leader and a UKIP MEP. It was a pleasure to be able to listen to both points of views without them arguing or point scoring. The trouble is both had good points to make.

You could do what I am going to do ethel - ask the younger members of your family for their opinions. It's their futures (I'm getting past it now).

mostly early retiree's and oap's and all say they want out of the EU
that is why I am going to ask younger people - any turmoil from leaving will probably affect the rest of my life, but after that - the future is for the younger generations.

Brexit: expats launch High Court action that could delay referendum
This could prove interesting. I wonder if we will find any more legal issues before we get to actually voting.

Richard Stein, a lawyer from Leigh Day, said: “Our clients are being penalised for exercising their EU free movement rights. The EU Referendum Act 2015 is said to be based on legislation for UK parliamentary general elections. But it gives a vote in the referendum to members of the House of Lords, as well as to Irish and Commonwealth citizens who are resident in Gibraltar. None of these are allowed to vote in UK general elections.

“The people it arbitrarily excludes are those UK citizens who are among those most likely to be affected by the decision taken by voters in this referendum.”

Leigh Day...? Pity the ex-pats couldn't get a more reputable firm of lawyers to represent them.