How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

See the right wing press are attacking Corbyn's speech, no surprises there though. However there is a general opinion that his intervention was a breath of fresh air after the heavy weather Cameron is making of the argument. Never has a prime minister approached an argument with such little preparation. Sound bites the friend of the PR man won't cut it with the voting public, well thought out speeches outlining the problems we all patently agree need resolving as well as the protection the EU gives us, will.
What do the press gain from this referendum?
Well I think that should the vote be leave they will almost certainly crow that they run the UK and not the government.

However I am more and more convinced that the vote will be remain and the British public will show common sense when push comes to shove, they will not be led by the nose by the scrappy press we are so unlucky to have in the UK.

I think Corbyn's speech today gave the most sensible reasons to stay in, no waffling as does Boris. Corbyn explained clearly and without puffed up explanations which really do not explain a damn thing

Some people niggly, in time, change opinion, he did not say being in the EU was fantastic, wonderful, best thing ever . His reasons for voting to stay in are ones I share, he said there were faults and there are, but even with the Faults he has decided best in . You stated he was dragged kicking and screaming , now you admit it's just your opinion,

As I said nel your statement is hypothetical and supposition. Repeating it doesn't make it a fact, or any truer

The leaders of all the UK political parties support remaining in the EU. Now that nig is a fact and true, not supposition nor hypothetical.

Have you looked at the Labour party website, niggly?
Have you seen his reasons for changing his mind over time?
He had good reasons for not wanting to join in the first place, but the EU has definitely changed to a much more socialist grouping.
The reasons he gives, for sticking up for the working man and his rights when the Tories, including those on Cameron's side who want to stay in, want to get rid of our human rights is very commendable.

I recommend that you read a bit more about his reasoning.
You'll be complaining about his dress sense next.

Sorry, conversion.

Well bearing in mind his antipathy towards the EU for all his political life which he made no secret of, his conversation in such a short space of time is truly astonishing! Perhaps he agreed with it all the time, and was only pretending hostility?!!!!!!!

Sorry if this has been mentioned before on this thread (can't read every post, very busy) but did anyone watch Nick Robinson's programme the other evening? - it was interesting to hear Hugh Gaitskill's speech about the EEC.

www.cvce.eu/content/publication/1999/1/1/05f2996b-000b-4576-8b42-8069033a16f9/publishable_en.pdf

Corbyn was honest , your knowledge thst he was dragged kicking and screaming to support something he doesn't agree with niggly is amazing, either you have spoken to him and he told you , or you mean in your opinion and not a fact as you claim

OK ana let's say a spokesperson from every country says the UK should stay in the EU and then say every country has an agenda. On the other side let's say every spokesperson from every country has given the advice that the UK is better off in the EU, we understand that not every country will have the best interests at heart, however to suggest that every single country and every single institution has a hidden agenda and not have the UKs interest at heart smacks of paranoia, of course you will say that you did not suggest every country, but the thrust of your argument suggests that the majority do so.

No nig we won't and the question is hypothetical. But we can only work with what we know and all the leaders of all political parties support the remain vote.

I can absolutely understand why he's had to take the view he has. I can't help but wonder though if he were still a backbencher whether he would be taking the same attitude? Of course that's something we'll never know.

You keep referring to 'other countries' whitewave, but it's only the opinion of a spokesperson for each of those countries (unless the rest of the world has had a referendum about whether the UK should leave the EU).

They all have their own agendas, some of which may not genuinely be in the UK's interests.

I was so pleased that he sounded sceptic, as I think it is a very honest position to take. Clearly he understands how important the support given to employees by the EU is. He understands how important the environmental support is and how it is essential it is that Europe face it as a block. However we know that he is concerned, as am I, about the perceived democratic gap. But he has looked at the two scenarios, and has come down on the remain side, as he absolutely understands the danger for the ordinary worker in the UK if we leave. We are being told by every large institution, both in the UK and the World together with every single country in the world that leaving the EU would be a disaster for the UK and the world economy. To ignore this advise is folly indeed.

I thought Jeremy Corbyn sounded very lukewarm, not convincing at all. I think he realises that reform inside the EU is virtually impossible, but reluctantly he has to go along with it. I almost felt sorry for him having to do a u turn about a conviction he's held convincingly all his life. . It must be tough for him to be dragged kicking and screaming into agreeing to support something he clearly doesn't.

A conversation with my grandson today;

Does David Cameron want to stay in the EU or come out?

He wants to stay in.

So why is there going to be a vote?

Because he promised everyone a vote before the election.

It's good to keep promises, isn't it?

Yes.

Does David Cameron always keep his promises?

No.

(A bit of thinking went on here)

So if people vote for us to leave the EU, it will be all his fault for keeping this promise, won't it?

Yes.

So why did he keep this promise and not the others?

( I found that difficult to answer.)

Then I read this.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/04/david-cameron-s-powers-wane-he-will-struggle-secure-legacy-he-wants

I think a lot of people liked a lot of what he said. They liked his healthy scepticism without throwing in the towel.

"And he backed EU action on tax avoidance, accusing the Leave campaign of wanting to make Britain "the safe haven of choice for the ill-gotten gains of every dodgy oligarch, dictator or rogue corporation"."

I liked what Corbyn said on tax avoidance.

Yes and me for all the positive reasons everyone has outlined plus I am frightened for my children's future if we leave.

I haven't read through all the posts but I am glad to read some that chime with me. Do I want to be be little England and pretend we still rule the waves? no. Do I like everything about the EU ? No. Do I like the fact that The EU has done a lot for impoverished regions in Europe? yes. Do I like the fact that legislation on equality, human rights etc has been spearheaded by the EU ? yes. Do I want to travel freely in Europe ? yes. Do I think the UK would be better off with the likes of Gove, Galloway, IDS et al running the show? No. I could go on..Its got to be a REMAIN from me.

Gracegran, I think you have summed it up nicely.

I haven't seen/heard Corbyn's speech, but I agree with your summary. I have never been in any doubt that I will vote to stay in.

I have just watched Jeremy Corbyn's speech and feel he has hit the nail on the head for me. Do I like everything about the EU - no. Do I think we would probably be better off in - yes. Do I think it needs reforming - yes. And something he didn't say but many older people do - do I think we can go back to the 1950's by coming out or that our government (any flavour) would directly take us to the golden age some seem to have lived through but I didn't - no.

Like you pompa I do not see this as a simple question but I am more convinced I will vote to stay in.

I have now pretty much decided how I will vote. I believe that most businesses will be better in than out, possibly not directly, but most small businesses rely on the major companies for their business. The impact of World economics, if we leave, will also have a bad effect on us all.
That along with many other factors is why I will vote to stay in.

And who's going to pay for border control staff to catch smugglers?

They will have to be as customs duties will have to be paid.