How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

Also pleased to read how well Labour are doing quietly behind the scene. Alan Johnson has busy with the unions and has delivered handsomely with all the major unions coming out in favour of remain. The Labour Party is almost entirely United, with the tiny exception that is irrelevant. They each come to the remain camp along different paths as we all do, but are big enough to recognise this fact, the importance is the economic and social health of the U.K.
A sharp contrast to the Tory Party.

So strange. Corbyn has been dismissed as a no hoper since he won the leadership of the party, yet he is constantly under media attack , political reporters on the Beeb have developed rather an unhealthy obsession with the man . Laura thingy - can't recall her surname - is one.

Why does this man who doesn't seek publicity, doesn't do 'look at me on hols ' photo shoots , hug huskies, tell us how he adores his family, wear Savile row suits, get on camera meeting leaders in Europe , doesn't do personal attacks on others, draw so much interest , he unsettles them and I believe it's because they cannot come to terms with a politician who will not dance to their tune, who is honest

Listening to someone from the out camp on the radio, who is arguing that the NHS is at risk from the EU! What nonsense is that? The NHS is at serious risk from this government, that's for sure. But absolutely not from the EU.

Out for me.

Careful worlass, You come under relentless attack with wicked subversive comments like that!!!!!

Thanks for giving me a laugh, * Niggly* This thread could certainly do with some.

Well I will side with worlass then.Shan' t give a reason as I don' t need to

This thread gives me a constant laugh.I enjoy the way spin is applied to all to do with Corbyn, including his dismal speech the other day.Even up to last year he was dissing the EU, now of course, he has been pressed to give a positive message about it to the party faithful. I particularly liked the 'healthy scepticism' remark from a poster ( about Corbyn) ... Yes, a lot of us on here have a healthy scepticism about the EU as well.
I think that Laura Kuennesberg is a really good political analyser, and she is balanced, not giving any one party or person the edge.
sadly, I think we will remain to stay, not common sense, more a sense of fear of the unknown..

So you didn't see the speech, then, roses, just read what other commentators have said about it.
He is still dissing the EU, but knows that if we come out, we will not be able to change it. Leave the EU and just watch? Bad idea.
The world is not as it was when we voted to join the EU.
We cannot now go back to that world, and shouldn't want to anyway.

If we want to trade with the EU, which we should as nearly half our exports are with the EU, we will still have to obey the laws. Otherwise we will lose trade.
Not many manufacturers want us to leave.

It's not fear of the unknown. It's common sense.

I agree roses, I think we will end up by hanging onto nurse, for fear of something worse. Let's face it all politicians are as slippery as eels, Corbyn and Co being no exception! This journey they've all been on?!!! Forgive the hollow laugh!! I agree about L.K too, one of few reporters without, seemingly a political drum to beat, which is refreshing.

I listened to Corbyns speech yesterday as it was live on BBC and SKY .

It was a shame there was an element of political point scoring given the speech was about the EU not the Conservatives, that surprised me I thought he wanted to move away from that type of politics . The other half was based on what has been repeated time after time by practically every MP, everybody wanting to stay IN the EU keeps saying.

" We need to stay in a REFORMED European Union". There is always the same case made, as Corbyn did again himself, the European Union is not great , it has faults, it MUST be reformed.

When Corbyn says he believes we must stay in a reformed EU and work from within alongside 'OUR' European partners that is the GROUP OF PROGRESSIVE ALLIANCE OF SOCIALISTS AND DEMOCRATS. the S & D which I believe has 190 MEP's in total of which 20 are Labour MEP's . He no doubt is talking of working possibly with a couple of the other parties with a similar view.. It still remains much the same as with our parliament you have totally opposing factions within the EU Parliament who will never see eye to eye. If you have ever watched how the European Parliament operates you will know that is very partisan and any talk of 'partners' , ' allies' is political waffle when it comes to voting and decision making. Democracy means the team with the highest number of bums on seats usually wins.

I don't think his speech was bad nor do I think it was good it was pretty mediocre . It must be difficult for so many who have followed Corbyn and attended so many organized events he has spoken at to hear him now say he believes he wants the UK to stay IN the EU, this has not been his stance until he became Labour Leader. There is no point denying that point there is too much evidence to prove that point so it is not party politics to say so. He stood on a principle and he was quite correctly ferocious in his backing for Greece for example , he must have had one hell of a U Turn in his thinking over a short period of time as he has been so openly critical of the European Union and gone through the lobby to vote against the EU for all of his political life as an MP.

I have just listened to Alistair Darlings speech live on Sky, he was focused on the EU debate and the content of his speech was by far more of value for anyone , such as myself, to ponder on. We need sensible opinions and facts and therefore I would say his speech was more informative than Corbyns for anybody wanting to listen to the practical side of the debate, the mechanics, rather than ideoligy.

Thank you for that info POGS. I will find A.D's sppech,listen and ponder on it. Maybe it will help me to make up my mind as I am still very uncertain.

Yes Darlings speech was good as well. He was however saying no more or less then the remainders on gransnet having been banging on about since the campaign began.

djen as often (on politics) we will have to disagree, although this matter is not really political at all, as POGS points out.It is a matter for us all as individuals, not to side with what any political party decrees, and that is what is so good about a referendum.

And the highlight of the day whitewave is Boris Johnson, self-appointed member of the Brexit cheerleading team, saying that payments should be introduced into the NHS system.

Perhaps the poor mother who lost her baby as a result of being forced to have a vaginal birth rather than a caesarean because according to the coroner through lack of cash ought to have paid.

And this from a potential Tory leader.

Suppose if one pays quarter million in tax one can afford extra payments to the NHS

I think what Boris said was that some of the money saved by leaving the EU should be used for the NHS. I may be wrong, but I don't think he is advocating patients having to pay.

Is there anyone on here who has changed their minds about the EU?

Is there any reason why Corbyn should not change his after all these years, and after discussing it with people he would not have had access to when he was just a backbencher?

" He drew a shrewd comparison with his decision to remain a member of Labour throughout the Blair years - an institution he has since changed from within. His message to the left was that they can achieve similar feats in Brussels. "That means democratic reform to make the EU more accountable to its people. Economic reform to end to self-defeating austerity and put jobs and sustainable growth at the centre of European policy, labour market reform to strengthen and extend workers’ rights in a real social Europe. And new rights for governments and elected authorities to support public enterprise and halt the pressure to privatise services.”

To the relief of Labour’s europhiles, he also offered (by his standards) fulsome praise for the EU. “Britain needs to stay in the EU as the best framework for trade, manufacturing and cooperation in 21st century Europe. Tens of billion pounds-worth of investment and millions of jobs are linked to our relationship with the EU, the biggest market in the world."

From the New Statesman.
Even though he did not agree with Blair on many things, he stayed a member of the Labour Party to try and change it from within, just like he is saying we should do with the EU. It does not stop him being a Eurosceptic.

I read it that way as well, niggly. Not sure where you've got your information from, Jess.

tompride.wordpress.com/2016/04/15/leading-members-of-brexit-campaign-call-for-privatisation-of-the-nhs-and-much-worse/

Is this where you got it from, Jess?

No, never changed my mind about the EU, it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Roll on June.

Yes Durhamjen but the term 'within' in your post is within the Labour Party not Parliament in general

The term 'within' in his speech is the European Party Group Labour belongs to not the European Parliament in general.

It is the age old Big fish in a small pond or Small fish in a big pond.

There are 28 member states, 751 MEP's and Labour have 20 MEPs. I understand that the ' groupings' give a bigger picture but if and when anybody from any party, anybody from one of the 28 states states we must stay in 'A Reformed European Union' it is political spin and waffle they know , we know , it is like bashing your head against the proverbial wall to get agreement .

If anybody wants to disagree that point to defend Corbyn I will say you will probably be a poster that has derided, scorned, mocked Cameron and his negotiations over the so called UK's Deal. You will probably be a poster that has said he got nothing, he was belittled by the others, he was powerless. You will have made the point for me , the UK is a small fish in a big pond. Corbyn will be an even smaller fish in a big pond unless he becomes PM in 2020.

His speech was a missed opportunity to make the positives for staying in the EU because his speech was, as most of his speeches, most of his interviews, are ' talking to his core voter, the activists, the party faithful,' not the country or us as individual voters.

I've not changed my mind over the EU because I haven't made my mind up yet. J Corbyn's change of heart is truly a conversation! Bit like St Paul on the road to Damascus! Wonder what the reaction would be if it had been a wicked Tory having this kind of revelation?!!!!!! Nothing short of remarkable!!

I understand why Corbyn is supporting in, if one wants things to change one has to be involved not cut oneself off