How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

Ana- a difficult one. But I'd say I don't agree- democracy like lemmings is not democracy. Democracy involves independent thought and decision. I'd say so does religion.

And our children and grandchildren. I almost feel as if we at our advanced age and with whom it will least effect over the coming years ought to butt out!!!!!

I am sure they do Ana but surely in that case they have at some point considered why that party is the one that most fits their view of the world, even if they don't ever think about it again?
The point about this referendum is that it is a one-off decision with enormous importance for the future of the UK.

And yet many people vote for their favoured party in a general election, whatever their policies, without considering any options. It's still democracy.

And those people are probably those who will complain the loudest when they are hit by the consequences of a 'gut without brain' vote. I don't object to people thinking opposite to me, as long as it is well thought, studied and considered.

Totally with you Mamie- and find it terrifying too that so many people will vote without making any attempts to understand the real issues and facts ...

It makes a true mockery of democracy, really and sadly.

What does it matter what Obama thinks, he is finished this year. I agree with Ana, I wouldn't do anything on an American presidents say so.

I find that terrifying Ana. This is such an important decision. Surely people need to take a measured view of the consequences for their children and grandchildren.

She's ana I am sure that is exactly what will happen.

Mamie, it's only what the average man/woman in the street will probaby be thinking about Obama's message. Not everyone has the will or the inclination to investigate the pros and cons of the referendum result and will go with their gut instinct, right or wrong.

Well, if that's the case you'd think the EU beaurocrats would be rather more accommodating when considering the UK's attempts to renegotiate its terms, instead of offering half-baked 'provisional' amendments which have no chance of being ratified if we choose to stay In.

Well maybe they really are acting as our friends here and pointing out that this will indeed be seriously bad for the future of the UK. When the vast majority of British industry and commerce and the leaders of other nations point out the negative impact of Brexit on the UK economy, does it not behove people to listen?
"Don't tell us what to do because we will do the opposite".
Is that really an appropriate response?

Well of course we are not a piddling nonentity. We would just be much smaller on our own.

Merkels power has weakened considerably over the past year or two, and there is tension throughout and between the EU countries. There are many issues as stake including the problem in the Middle East with the movement of populations.

The U.K. provides a strong stabilising and balancing effect, and the world understands how much we contribute to this stability.

If we leave this stability will in their opinion cease to exist. Unfortunately we will be caught up in t he aftermath as well.

Germany's history is very complicated. Churchill wanted Germany built up as a buffer between the UK and the eastern block, There were millions poured into Germany from America for this reason and they only withdrew their forces from Germany a dozen years ago. That is why we can put up so many refugees- they are all living in the baracks ( quite comfortable) left behind by the US forces.
The prime minister of the Area (Land) where I live, said on TV the baracks are where they are, and the refugees will be installed there, he can't move them. It is an unfair situation. Heidelberg has hundreds as those baracks were the biggest and central. The US built a small town there with a hospital, that was why is wasn't bombed as they planned to live there after the fighting had ceased.

Most Germans are convinced the US won the war, they had an enormous effect on post war Germany which is why Obama feels so keen to keep the EU altogether with Germany at its centre. As my own DH was fed by the Americans in those starvation years, I am thankful to them.
Of course there was a lot of money invested in Germany after the war but the investors knew what they were investing in. If they had thrown that money at Italy, Greece or Poland it would have disappeared without a trace.

Judging as an onlooker I would say that the US has a special relationship with Germany. Obama is a clever man and keeps his cards close to his chest.

Well quite Ana! Why on earth would our departure matter if we are considered to be nothing more than a cold damp little island on the outer edge of Europe?! Are we more important than we thought?! Or is it just that we'll do as we're told under any circumstances and pay up without complaint?!! Oh, and our retired MPs potentially have a nice little earner, shouldn't rock that boat, god forbid!!!

Why? If the UK is such a piddling nonentity (according to some) how is its departure from the EU going to cause such catastrophe? I know we pay a lot to the EU, but surely not enough that its withdrawal would render such a calamitous effect...

The British psyche needs kicking into the long grass over this, and the British intelligence needs to take a prominent roll.

I am now beginning to understand why the rest if the world is so keen for us to remain. On the EU course I am doing it outlines the development of the EU, and German dominance.

What is becoming crystal clear is that if the UK leaves there is an extremely high risk amounting to almost absolute certainty of severe instability both within the EU and its knock on effect throughout the global economy.

So yes when they say "remain" they are saying it for selfish reasons, but those reasons are exactly the same for the UK.

Precisely, it's exactly what my DH is now going to do, having been on the fence! Don't come here telling us what we can or cannot do. You risk us doing the opposite!

Exactly!

Does President Obama not understand the British psyche?
Using veiled threats of what would happen to our relationship with America if we leave the EU will only result in the average British person wanting to do the opposite!

I think it's ' you could, not you will ' but you know what I mean, (I hope!!!)

Well you know the saying:- You ring the bells today, you'll ring your hands tomorrow! which I suppose is the same as being careful what you wish for!

X posts (it took me so long to think about my post and type it that I had not seen yours nellie)

Struggling with German monetary policy and the Euro at the moment.