How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

Re Turkey/ immigration.
I've just read that Human rights groups are scathing about the deal done.
Perhaps now they will see that the EU doesn't give a stuff about Human rights, it was a very clever money making scheme dreamed up by lawyers.

I agree roses, I have been feeling that I just dont know, so how can I vote?! But after chatting to DIL who runs her own small business, and my own observations of completely pathetic bunch of hand wringing politicians, quarrelling, collapsing, and now having to give way to what would appear to be Turkey's 'blackmail'?! I 'm now not so sure! (You can't blame Turkey, opportunity and all that!!) and yes, I know there will be all sorts of so called negotiations for the look of the thing and that everyone will try to appear statesman like which won't fool anyone, but will at the end of the day mean giving way!. I just think the politicians in the EU are so weak and dare I say it stupid! and for me that doesn't bode well for the future, and the thought of landing future generations with this weak vacillating untrustworthy organisation quite frightening.

You are spot on niggly that is the problem for the Labour Party, Corbyn is in no way shape or form a 'leader'.
I hope people will vote though, simply sitting at home wringing our hands won't do any good, although some do see it as a dilemma I know.

Plenty of time to change minds! At the moment abstention or out is looking attractive, but who knows, nothing is definite till the deed is done!
As for Corbyn, goodness knows what he really thinks! Except for vague mumbles about a reformed EU, he hasn't really said much at all. Maybe because he's uncomfortable at being in tune with D.C.!!!! I think politicians in the EU would make political mincemeat of him, bearing in mind the double dealing and worse that is endemic in the EU! A fish out of water comes to mind!

Anyway, that's two of you who are not going to vote out, so that's okay.

"In the 1970s and early 1980s the Labour Party was the more Eurosceptic of the two parties, with more anti-European Communities MPs than the Conservatives. In 1975, Labour held a special conference on British membership and the party voted 2 to 1 for Britain to leave the European Communities.[23] In 1979, the Labour manifesto[24] declared that a Labour government would "oppose any move towards turning the Community into a federation" and, in 1983,[25] it still favoured British withdrawal from the EEC."

Wrong again. Hugh Gaitskill was against it as well.

Sorry, but I do not think you can really say that about Corbyn. If he was like the rest, why did he stand against the others to give a different choice?
Labour voters voted for him because he was different, and he still is.

Corbyn was, until his elevated position an arch opponent of the European Union! His new found enthusiasm could be more to do with Labour party unity, as they've always backed the EU, than conviction!! He's a politician after all, with an eye to the main chance, and lets face it no different to any other, whatever their political persuasion!!!

I absolutely agree with you ethelbags, I don't think that ordinary folk should be voting on something so important. It's much too complicated for politicians to agree about, so how on earth can laymen possibly know.

But isn't that the sort of thing that Cameron could have used as one of his reforms to keep us in? That's why people say he did not go far enough.
Corbyn says we should stay in a reformed EU.

OMG I am more confused than ever, its too much for my little head to get around. I don't think ordinary folks should have to deal with this. I will bury my head in a book on the voting day.

Chilling.

According to Richard Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn said this in 2009:

Really, I haven't heard the news yet! So what happens now is anybody's guess!! Just goes from bad to worse, and the sooner we extricate ourselves from this mess that is the EU the better. What in Gods name will they dream up next?!!

Day6. How could you forget Turkey? Do you know the countries that border Turkey. They are more of a problem.
Judging by the news that the EU have said no to Turkey's demands,the EU are between a rock and a hard place. No surprise there. They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Blimey, I'd forgotten about Turkey wanting to to be part of the EU! I don't see Turks as European in any way, shape or form.

Turkey is Eurasian, a poor country bordered by Syria, with a population that is 99% Islamic.

We'd be weakening the Union by allowing Turkey to become part of it. That's a dodgy, at best, economical move for sure. I'll be voting to leave the EU.

The EU is a complete mess. To get a deal over migration Turkey is asking almost impossible terms including turning a blind eye to their appalling human rights and freedom of speech record! How on earth can they be accepted as members of the EU with that sort of attitude?!! But no doubt they will be, we'll have no choice!! How is it that whether it's Putin or another country, there always seems someone who has us by the throat!! From someone who wasn't going to vote, the exit door is beginning to look extremely attractive, then they can all just get on with it and we can concentrate on making this country a better place not a run down hanger on of an outdated, arrogant, hypocritical, completely out of touch with reality, that is the EU.

"I think those that want the UK out will soon regret the decision when Putin starts flexing his muscles and picking off the weaker countries, which will obviously include the UK."

skullduggery, that is hilarious scaremongering.Where did you get that daft notion from?

You may have forgotten that one of our biggest allies is the USA. You cannot pick off countries one by one. Even the smallest have allies. Putin knows all his actions will have consequences.

European countries won't suddenly become our enemies because we leave the Union either.

The EU is in danger of collapse - it's not a happy union - and should we leave I imagine MANY others will be looking to take the same course of action too. I doubt if much will change for ex-pats either because generally they boost the economy of the countries in which they settle. We are still considering buying in France, undeterred by the outcome of the referendum.

So we're to brow beaten by threats?!! Something tells me that threats could have exactly the oposite effect and backfire!! I understand Spain will have designs on Gibraltar should we leave the EU! another threat?!! Have they not heard of the Treaty of Utrecht? After all, they did sign it!! Also, presumably Spain will be returning the enclaves they currently run that clearly belong to Morocco! These threats are beginning to sound tedious and provocative!

It makes sense for the Belgians to say so. The migrants want to come to the UK, not stay in France or Belgium- and therefore if the UK chooses to get out of the European Treaties- they will just let them go where they want to go and be rid of them. Simple- not blackmail. The French are saying the same. I bet many people in the Calais region would have a whip round to charter some ferries or pay for their EuroStar tickets.

fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

Another EU myth, Royandsil.

Surely British Ex-pats and those working in Europe won't be any worse off than UK citizens living in the rest of the world? Many of us have friends and relations retired or working in New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, Saudi Arabia and the Middle East (although they seem to earn too much to care), India ........!!

Definitely OUT. They have NEVER signed off the accounts. Nobody has elected the leaders into their jobs. Why do they need two parliaments, Strasburg as well? Germany and France rule. Our Prime Minister has won nothing. I will never vote Conservative again because he has sold us down the river. Vote for Boris. Neil Kinnick and his family have done very well out of EU. I could go on but won't!

Smacks of blackmail by the Belgians, don't think that one will hold water.

The Belgian goverment have already made it clear that the British border control will be removed from Zeebrugge if the UK leave the EU.
I have noticed that many people who talk about the 2.2 million British passport holders who live within the EU have British pensions. If they are pensioners, many do not and are reliant upon the EU countries they live in for benefits and pensions.
No, it is not a small number, quite substanial actually.I would post the full details but never figured out how, sorry.