How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

Which seems to be more the preserve of the IN lot rather than the OUT lot.

Well, Lord Wolfson (whoever he is, CE of Next plc, apparently, and someone who wrote what follows) agrees with me: "...one thing is certain: whether Britain leaves or stays, our prosperity will most depend on liberating ourselves from our own pessimism".

I will definitely vote out, mainly on the grounds of unstoppable, uncontrollable immigration to this small island. Politicians seem to be untouched by or unaware of the pressures placed on housing, healthcare, education etc. They should try living at the sharp end, where people who are struggling themselves have to cope with often being pushed to the back of the queue for services.I am involved in trying to alleviate some of the problems and fall-out from this. As the great-granddaughter of immigrants, it makes me uncomfortable to write this, and were I in the position of many of these people I would almost certainly do the same. There is another point (and I wonder how many Gransnetters live, like me, in an area where there is a very high immigrant population); no effort seems to be made to help or encourage the newcomers to adapt to at least some aspects of British life; in the case of the almost totally delightful, courteous and kind Polish girls who serve in most of our coffee shops, this is a good thing; in the case of the (better not say) the habit of random spitting in the street and a lack of understanding of queueing, for instance, it is not.

Having watched a prerecorded Thursday night's Question Time which came from Liverpool, a couple of members of the audience raised some salient points. Apropos of Stuart Rose's rather ambiguous statement "pay rises could ensue, should there be a Brexit", one man in the audience raised the point that wages had been held down by mass migration. Stuart Rose's perceived implication, that wages rising would be a bad thing. No wonder the CBI are so in favour of staying, God forbid that the serfs should be paid more Although I seem to remember that there was an assertion that pay hasn't been affected.

Another member of the audience raised the very apparent fact that there isn't any consensus among member states on how to deal with the most challenging dilemma, the migrant crises, that Europe has ever faced, so how is their dithering supposed to inspire us to vote for a union lacking in any sort of solidarity.

Voting to leave.

So we did not vote then for a simple economic union, we voted for an economic union that was intended to grow closer, and more united, and not just a free for all marketplace.

Not knowingly though. We were hoodwinked by Heath and his cronies.

Not that I voted to join, anyway...

POGS You made a reference this morning to a Federal State of Europe, ever closer union and all that, which reminded me of what went on back in the 1970s

I was reading yesterday the White Paper produced by Ted Heath's Government in 1971, just 4 years prior to our last referendum, and on page 8 (paragraph 28), the Government knew then that the EEC was pushing towards an ever closer political and monetary union. Similar 'harmonisation' along social, economic and legal similarities are identified in this publication.

They said so then in black and white, so why any politician today claims that we only signed up for an economic union, and din't realise we were working towards ever closer social and political union is beyond me.

So we did not vote then for a simple economic union, we voted for an economic union that was intended to grow closer, and more united, and not just a free for all marketplace.

If only today's politicians had the proverbial to stand up and be as specific with their vote leave, or vote remain campaigns.

Clearly if they don't tell us details four and against they will be able to blame us for anything that goes a bit wrong in the future.

SallyWragg "the French minister who said that if we did, the migrant camp in Calais will somehow make its way into England, for instance."

What stops the migrant/refugees from piling onto the trains about to go through the Channel Tunnel? The efforts of French police and of the British ones allowed to come there by the French. The French have no strong reason to stop the trains and search them, who knows whether they would continue to do so if the Uk left the EU?

The bridgehead for the "invasion" (not my choice of words, I am quoting what a section of the press call it) would then move from Calais to the other end of the tunnel. The migrants/refugees would then either be housed by the Uk, or would camp out as they do at Calais. They won't just magically vanish, or stay meekly in France.

Hattie Look at fullfact.org/europe/first-they-came-vacuum-cleaners-will-it-be-kettles-next/ for a more balanced account of the hairdryer story than the one in the Mail.

"The EU is currently in the process of determining which types of product to prioritise for environmental improvements. Hairdryers, lawn mowers, and electric kettles are three categories out of 29 that could face restrictions, and the EU aims to choose about 20 as priorities."

"We don't yet know if the EU will enact any regulations affecting these products, never mind what they'd look like, although its preliminary investigations on some items provide us with clues."

"Regulation isn't just about limits to wattage"

"Not all of the potential requirements would involve limits to the power consumed in the home."

"For instance, the researchers have said another option in the case of electric kettles would be to require them to be more durable so that they last longer on average, and fewer need to be manufactured."

"And for hairdryers, the researchers point to a scheme by a German company which has been able to achieve a certain ratio of power consumption against the rate at which it dries hair. If adopted as a law, that would mean hairdryers would be allowed to have high wattage as long as there was a corresponding improvement in performance."

"Neither of these options are actively suggested by researchers, or by the Commission, but they do serve to highlight that regulations on design don't have to take the form of bans on power consumption."

I am trying to read up about it and so far and instinctively, I think I shall be voting to leave. I don't see why we can't function outside Europe, Switzerland, for instance, aren't in Europe and yet they export more to Europe than we do. It might be a leap into the unknown but I don't like the way Brussels has reduced the effectiveness of our Parliament. We should be making our own laws. I don't want to live in a country called
Europe but in a country called Great Britain and of course to have free trade with Europe. I certainly don't like the bullyboy tactics from the 'stay' brigade as to what will happen if we do exit - the French minister who said that if we did, the migrant camp in Calais will somehow make its way into England, for instance. I haven't heard enough positive reasons why we should stay in

I am trying to read up about it and so far and instinctively, I think I shall be voting to leave. I don't see why we can't function outside Europe, Switzerland, for instance, aren't in Europe and yet they export more to Europe than we do. It might be a leap into the unknown but I don't like the way Brussels has reduced the effectiveness of our Parliament. We should be making our own laws. I don't want to live in a country called
Europe but in a country called Great Britain and of course to have free trade with Europe. I certainly don't like the bullyboy tactics from the 'stay' brigade as to what will happen if we do exit - the French minister who said that if we did, the migrant camp in Calais will somehow make its way into England, for instance. I haven't heard enough positive reasons why we should stay in

I am trying to read up about it and so far and instinctively, I think I shall be voting to leave. I don't see why we can't function outside Europe, Switzerland, for instance, aren't in Europe and yet they export more to Europe than we do. It might be a leap into the unknown but I don't like the way Brussels has reduced the effectiveness of our Parliament. We should be making our own laws. I don't want to live in a country called
Europe but in a country called Great Britain and of course to have free trade with Europe. I certainly don't like the bullyboy tactics from the 'stay' brigade as to what will happen if we do exit - the French minister who said that if we did, the migrant camp in Calais will somehow make its way into England, for instance. I haven't heard enough positive reasons why we should stay in

Where did you read about hairdryers, Hattie? That was at the same time as less powerful vacuum cleaners. It's history.

But, lindajoy, they have been agreed. We would not be having a referendum in June if Cameron had not reached an agreement about what the British want. Of course, he never asked us. Paternalism rules.

Nothing will persuade me to vote to stay in. Only today I see another ridiculous Europe directive that hairdryers should be less powerful !!! There are certainly too many of their bureaucrats sitting thinking "what shall I dream up today to justify my salary ? NO, NO NO. It is these sort nonsensical impositions that I object to so much. British laws for British people thank you very much.

It is not as simple as a 'yes' or 'no' vote on 23rd June. There should be a third option of 'yes, provided certain changes are agreed'. As things currently stand, I would vote to stay in as anything else would be too disadvantageous economically.

I heard it was so we could charge the Scots taxes.

Thanks Durhamjen Have just watched The Last Leg on You Tube
Brilliant! Thanks for introducing me to @brickingitforcanada.com and @TheLastLeg

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFfUSxPUXKA

We used to say that Hadrian built the wall to stop the 'english' from escaping. There are two sides to every wall! If Boris and the Brexits win the referendum perhaps they may be persuaded to build a wall to keep out
those pesky Northern pro Europeans. I'd donate a brick for that! #brickitforboris

16/17 year olds voted for the first time in the Scottish referendum, and look what happened there. There are 16/17 year olds who care more about politics than many adults. Tehy all have citizenship lessons now.

This article is interesting.

theconversation.com/the-eu-holds-the-trump-card-if-the-uk-wants-a-friendly-brexit-deal-free-movement-of-people-will-have-to-continue-55262

Leaving the EU will not do anything to change the free movement of EU citizens if we want a quick exit.

By the way, there are lots more interesting articles on that website.

Well, I like the thought of coming out, but just don't think it will happen.
As to those who want 16/17 year olds to vote, if we, as adults find it hard to choose the right answer what hope do they have?!The IN campaign would like them to vote, because they think ( probably rightly) that youngsters will vote to stay in.

What huge impact? They will still have their UK pensions, if they're entitled to one, their cost of living will remain the same, nothing will change for them, just as nothing will change for EU migrants already living in this Country. What WILL change if we do the sensible thing and leave the EU is that we will be able to make our own laws again, we will be able to control who comes here, and hence stop the massive population explosion that this country is suffering from which is putting an enormous strain on all our services.
The reduced demand for housing might even stabilise prices, giving first time buyers a better chance of Buying something, and then there's the not inconsiderable billions of pounds we'll save. What's not to like about getting out?

Did you watch the Last Leg, sarandig?
One thing was about Trump and all the Americans wanting to move to Canada, just in case Trump gets in.
They had a website brickingitforcanada which actually trended number one on twitter, to sponsor a brick to build a wall to keep the Americans out.

We already have our wall, but Hadrians Wall is not far enough south for the original Northumbria. We probably ought to build another one along the M62.

Mercia is a bit of a problem. It included London and the home counties, so I cannot imagine most of those voting to remain in the EU.

Hi POGS,

My last post is in reply to earlier ones relating to the state pensions of UK retirees who live in other EU countries. At present it is an unknown as to whether they would be frozen at their current level if the UK votes to leave the EU. Not sure what off-shore companies has to do with state pensions.

There are several posts where I have made clear that I live in France and at some point in the future, I will return to live in the UK. Irrespective of which country I was residing in, I would still vote to stay in the EU for all the positive reasons given by many other contributors to this subject.

As much as I love the home and lifestyle I have in France, all my family and longstanding friends are in the UK. So, I am not sure how it was assumed that the ''UK holds no temptation'' for me! I would prefer that you avoid making sweeping personal assumptions about me.

Let me clarify the point you have raised about the 'British Market'. The context is the prospect of selling my French home, maybe earlier than originally planned, because of adverse changes to the EU/UK treaties relating to healthcare and pensions.

In the event of the UK leaving the EU, I would not expect a rush of British citizens buying French property or indeed any property in Europe until they know what the consequences will be. Therefore, we would be looking to other EU countries, particularly French buyers for our property.

I have absolutely no worries about my British passport. The reference to my tenuous Irish connection was made tongue in cheek.

Lighten up!

I do hope England votes to leave. Then if Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland vote to remain in Europe along with Mercia and Northumbria - our 'little englanders' can remain all by themselves in Wessex ie 'The Last Kingdom' of the Anglo Saxons. ( But ,oh dear -weren't those Anglo Saxons originally immigrants from Europe ??)

No, they do not, ruthie. They do not have a vote in general elections, either, unless they take UK nationality, even if they have lived here and paid taxes for over twenty years.

16 and 17 year olds were going to be given the vote, as were EU nationals living here, but the government changed its mind after the election.