Germany

Actually roses it is only quite recently that young Germans are being taught about the war. I had a lovely German nanny once, and she knew nothing about what happened and learned it from my mother. And her father was a Social Democrat MP!

I felt quite perturbed during the recent commemorations of the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima. Of course it was absolutely horrific and massive trauma for ordinary Japanese people. :But it brought WWII to an end. What made me cross was thinking of all those who lost relatives who were Japanese POWs and treated abominably and cruelly. What were they thinking on that day, why weren't their losses being commemorated?

Lovely post POGS
Strangely enough, in my street as a kid, it was the Japenese that were spoken of most harshly. The chap from te grocery store had been a Japanese POW and he was a bit famous for it!

Actually I should amend this. it is most of us in the UK who have not suffered. Of course the eldest generations of Europeans suffered horribly during WWII, But the younger generations have thankfully for the most part led a comparatively peaceful and priviledged life.

The young Germans should feel no guilt at all, but at least they do learn what went on, including the death camps.Unlike Japan, where history has been so airbrushed out, that the atomic bombs dropped on Japan is all that schoolchildren know.

I think it was a bishop during WWII who said not all Germans are bad Germans. this is true of any nation. My uncle by marriage was a German Jew and he and some of his family managed to get out and come to England. His best friend in Germany was a gentile and they managed to keep in touch and maintain their friendship for the rest of their lives. My cousin is named after this friend and is still in touch with this family. (Interesting book - The Past Is Myself by Christie Bielenberg)

Likewise the family of my Indian muslim ex was helped out of India to Pakistan by their Hindu friends at Partition.

No nation should be judged on the evils of the minorities in the past. Think ex Yugoslavia, Congo, White South Africa. The list is endless. Most people of the human race are decent, honest, humanitarian individuals and should be treated as such. It is usually fear that force the many to abide by the few.

Most of us Europeans have not had to experience such privations and should be careful to reserve judgement.

RE Angla Merkel. Long may she reign. If worse comes to worst she will be a major player in dealing with the dreaded Trump.

Good post POGS.I agree about the AFD, a bit like the UKIP vote here at the last election, a protest vote.

wot

I think there is always going to be an issue when words are used such as Hitler, Nazi's. We have the same problem when some think of Colonialism as an English only problem. It is more a problem for the person who cannot differentiate between the past and the present if such words are used to try and sway debate into a negative thought.

I am not saying that history should be wiped out, nor am I saying honesty over such matters should not be spoken of. I am saying that when we are discussing matters that are purely relative to this period of time it's such a shame personal prejudices and connections can creep into debate to drag it back to the past.

I like to think that our generation , most certainly our children and grandchildren, have had the benefit of living in a world that recognises the past, our history but happily lives more harmoniously together. I think of holidays where our children and grandchildren play happily together, school exchanges between Germany and the UK, so many more aspects of our lives that intertwine in a ' positive ' way. I hope you view my words in the spirit of which they were intended. I remember when I was 18 I stayed with a family in Heidelberg. My father was in the Royal Navy, likewise Guss the father of the household in the German Navy. I was accompanying my parents and Guss was hosting our stay as it was a work connection. I had the privilege of being shown around Heidelberg by the daughter , Claudia, it was a long lasting memory of their kindness, hospitality and yes even being shown the Nazi Amphitheater in the woods , is it called the Thingstatte? I raise this point as at no time did I or Claudia and the group of her friends we were with not understand it was not the making of our generation and that is the point I am long windedly trying to make. Claudia and I remained acquaintances for many years .

The gains by the AFD are a wake up call but I believe Fr Merkle will win the Federal Election next year as her position in the European Union is too much for Germany to consider loosing. She is without doubt at the present the most influential woman in politics, IMHO.

My son has lived and worked in Bavaria for the last 10 years, and I have visited him many times. It is a lovely place to visit, and probably to live. The Germans I have met accept their past. The actions of the Nazis have to be condemned in the context of the many millions killed by Stalin, Phol Pot in Cambodia, Mao, the Turkish treatment of the Armenians and continuing treatment of the Kurds. Man's inhumanity to man is in evidence throughout the twentieth century.

Yes Ab, my BIL's father was old 99 just died two years ago. We have never been told what he did during the war just that he was a civil servant.
I agree bags, the younger generation are not guilty.

People can be the worst things on the planet and never fail to shock me.

I don't think young Germans should feel any guilt. They weren't even born at the time of the holocaust. The half German son of a friend of mine has suffered abuse at a Scottish school because of his parentage. It's ridiculous to put any blame on such as him, or even his mother. Neither were alive at the time and any blaming is pure, nasty xenophobia.

My cousins are 83 and 86, still with good health and brain function! My dad would be 100 if he hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil. He NEVER spoke of the war.

Yes, I agree, unfortunately. They say the were "sucked" in by H but I would always stick my neck out if people or animals are being treated cruelly. It's quite depressing, really. Think of the Milgram experiment.

Harriman, they would need to be old not just elderly to have supported hitler, the war ended 68 years ago, if we take twenty as an age for a supporter of hitler they will be at least 88 years of age now and if supported his rise then about 100 years old

I have seen no evidence that the younger generations feel any guilt. The older friends and relatives, living in Germany, talk of how they suffered and the years of deprivation but no mention of how they supported a mad man.

Not trying to be dramatic, but my siblings and I had a tough time at school due to our German name. Our headmistress' fiance was killed and she always had it in for me, the cow! She said to me "There places for people like you" I didn't even know about the Holocaust until I read about it when I was 13 and was horrified.
I do find that my relatives in Germany [the war time generation] have different attitudes to us "Brits" Loads of laws such as not to wash cars on a Sunday etc etc.

We are not one country, we are four countries forming a kingdom, I leave out United because it isn't true

I am pretty sure that the victims of the holocaust would not make much distinction between "those who were responsible and those who tagged along out of fear", if they were doing the same thing.

I have the blue eyes of my Saxon/Viking ancestors; my sisters have the brown eyes of our Celtic ancestors. We are a hybrid nation, the result of conquest and migration and will continue to be so. Get used to it.

Former Husband was stationed there while in the Army, found them to be friendly helpful polite kind, in lots of ways they already seemed so much more advanced than us. Enjoy my 2 yrs there. (smile)

Has anyone considered the "guilt" felt by the children of the Nazis? And the self hatred when seeing and reading about the Holocaust? Inevitable, I think.

My original thought was that it is hardly surprising if different parts of Germany still have separate identities, given that we still have after a much longer period of "unification". But I am not clear what reservations about Germany there might be, based on its relatively short history. The federal structure seems to work pretty well. Or is it being suggested that some regions are more, say, xenophobic than others?

So do you think of the UK as one country now? I never do, to me we're 4 separate nations.
Germany as one country - if it's made up of various smaller units it's misleading to stereotype it.
Those who were responsible for the holocaust were only a small section of society. Many of the rest tagged along out of fear.

No teribull, there are many self appointed spokespeople for this country here without me joining them

Who is this "we" you refer to AB? Are you some self appointed spokesperson for the all of the British? What a blanket statement for heaven sake. I don't think we celebrate wars so much as commemorate them. Some are so far back they are really only brought up in a historical context anyway.

The magnitude of the genocide under the Third Reich, although not unprecedented, Turkey also tried to do the same thing to the Armenians, is still a cloud over Germany and possibly will be whilst there are still victims who suffered at the hands of the Nazis (not the German people per se who we do not blame)