Germany

Although, grumppa it is the majority (black and white) being discriminated against by a gang of thugs an 'elite'.

I didn't say that successive were the same, Ab, and I agree that their willingness to something about apartheid varied; that doesn't mean that they supported it as a policy.

Anyway, if it wasn't the governments or all the political parties, who were the "we" to whom you referred?

The redistribution of land in Zimbabwe has been going on for years with the accompanying Mugabe thugs orchestrating it, so the latest land grab is no surprise. Anyhow they are while farmers, so who cares, probably serves them right!![hmmm] This is why Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa, is now nearly bankrupt and it's people starving. Do I take it that some posters feel that tyranny is fine so long as it's towards the same race?! To me, tyranny is tyranny whoever is conducting it to whatever race. South Africa, sadly, in spite of such a promising start, is being coming more and more lawless. The president is openly corrupt, and like Mugabe, seemingly untouchable. The young seem to view Nelson Mandela as some sort of Uncle Tom. But not to worry, violence, corruption, terrorising the weak and disaffected is absolutely fine so long as it's a black government doing it!!!!

Have you read about the doctor in the UK who 'laid claims' to a white couples farm in Zimbabwe? After 30 years they lost their farm.

Interestingly reports say Mugabe has been ' redistributing ' land for 15 years and 90% of white farmers have lost their land because of ' redistribution '. Facts require confirmation.

wot, not exactly a supportive wife in that case.

grumppa
The population as a whole may be suffering under the Mugabe regime
Yes, I didn't word it very well.

Sorry but it is not true that successive governments were the same in actions against S apartheid, Thatcher refused to support the fight and Cameron flew out to SA for a company who supported apartheid, he dismissed it a just a jolly

Labour Party invited members of the ANC to visit the U.k and I was at the Labour Party conference in Brighton when Mandela was a guest and he thanked the labour anti apartheid movement for their support and their efforts to bring down apartheid

I'm not sure I understand the comparison with Zimbabwe. The population as a whole may be suffering under the Mugabe regime, but it is not a case of the majority of the people being discriminated against by a minority of a different race.

what to do for the best without harming the non-white population was a very contentious issue. and of course, still is in Zimbabwe - the answer being 'nothing'.

I was anti-Apartheid as far back as 1961. If "we" is meant to refer to successive UK governments, it may be fairer to say that they did not manage to do much about it rather than that they supported it; what to do for the best without harming the non-white population was a very contentious issue.

When you say 'we' anniebach I hope you don't mean all of us collectively.
Some of us were on Peter Hain's side.
Some of us had relatives and friends in Zimbabwe in the 1960s and 1970s (Southern Rhodesia as it was then known), many of whom were very uncomfortable indeed with the status quo and doing their best to educate people. Some of them were unable to leave. Others managed to leave with nothing.

The war ended 68 years ago, we were supporting apartheid in SA until the 1990's ,

Until recently I was prejudiced against what I thought of as the German nation, because of going through the war, and Dad being away fighting them. My sister was born after the war, and she's very pro-German, studied there and has a degree in German. She had a German penpal too, they exchanged visits. She and Dad used to have big rows about it, he never got over his mistrust of them.
The last 10 years or so I've been reading as much as I could find about what it was like to be a German civilian before during and after the war, and that's changed my feelings a lot. And the nature of forgiveness.
Anyone read The Sunflower by Simon Weisenthal?

Our son went to what was then West Berlin in 1978 when he was 14. It was an exchange through my S.father who was an amateur radio ham. Uwe came to us for a month and our son went back with him. Again the exchange was a great success, and our son was able to visit the wall and see into the East, and has never forgotten this as an amazing and sobering experience. At no time was any derogatory reference made to the war, or remarks about Nazi's either within the family or amongst friends on either side, in fact quite the opposite. Perhaps young people were more tolerant then and there were less misconceptions about what really happened that may have now got lost in the mists of time. Or perhaps with East Germany there for the world to see, everyone was just kinder.

In the 70s my best friend at school lived in Germany before we both started secondary school mid term at the same time. In Germany my friend and her brother went to an American school and were not taught about the role of Germany during the war. Her Mum is German and when her grandparents came over for a holiday in England, I was told the war was never discussed because of the shame. Also if something like a film came on the TV to do with the war, the channel would be changed without any mention of why. That never happened when I was there, but they didn't speak English so I wouldn't have known what was being said anyway.

My brother's wife is half Dutch and she blames all brothers bad behaviour on us being German.

Well my family didn't feel like that as my previous post has demonstrated. We lost two family members to that war, and two others, one severely wounded, and the other traumatised in the first war. None of us have ever blamed ordinary Germans. It was a terrible regime where evil flourished, but certainly not the fault of post war Germans. I have, however, got a Dutch friend who is married to a German, and this poor chap unfortunately is riddled with guilt, which is very sad.

They get asked about it as soon as they set foot in England, get called Nazis.
Surely that's not true MargaretX? DB and DSIL belonged to the German exchange group and welcomed many German visitors to their home and had happy memories of visits over in Germany.

My DF was in WW1 and WW2 but not, as far as I know, in the Far East except between the wars. When I was friendly with a German exchange student (dark hair, brown eyes) in the early 1960s he welcomed him to our house.

My husband who lived through the war like I did feels no guilt about the Nazi regime. Why should he? My children feel no guilt either. They know about it, learn about it in school but it was not their fault.

They get asked about it as soon as they set foot in England, get called Nazis. I suppose all Germans get to expect it, I wouldn't know not being German.

My uncle who was with the RAMC in Burma when the men came out of the Japanese camps would never buy anything Japanese but was happy to have a VW Golf. What did I buy with part of my inheritance? A Toyota.

Let's just say I could never have had a Japanese boyfriend, well, not to take home!! My parents doctor had been in Burma during the war, they never discussed it other than to mention it, but it made a comforting link, particularly when my S.father suffered from his many bouts of malaria.

Sorry I meant in Burma during WW2.

My Dad who's been in Japan would never have a Japanese car or Japanese gadgets. He was fine about German cars and technology. A lot of his friends were the same. Never talked about what they'd seen or done.

I think man's inhumanity to man has been evident since God was a boy and before. My Stepfather was a POW with the Japanese. He was captured after the fall of Singapore, having been seconded to escort a women and children on the last ship out of there. The ship was torpedoed and foundered, many lives being lost. S.father and a friend got to an island where they were soon captured. Friend was sent to Japan but was torpedoed again, by an American submarine and this time was drowned. S.Father was sent back to Singapore and survived!
My natural father was killed in 1942. In 1957, my mother, through a peace and reconciliation society organised by the Baptist Chapel that my S.Grandparents attended, opted to have to stay with us, a German girl. Inge came to us aged 17 and spent two months as our guest and it was an enormous success. Two years later I went to stay in Stuggart and was given such a warm heartfelt welcome both by her and her wonderful parents, it was hard to believe that we'd been bitter enemy's such a short time ago. I do think that we all do have to try to move forward as these two sets of parents did when we were young, the past is important but not as an excuse for more horror. Mind you Japan was a bit of a No, No in our house right until death! I'm not quite sure what I think in this regard, they were so very dreadful, not only to POW's but all over the Far East, but then I suppose so we're Germans which does rather contradict me moving forward!!!!!

Having seen pics of German youngsters walking around one of the terrible death camps Anni I assumed anybody under 40 in Germany knew all about the war, but perhaps not.
My headmaster from primary school had been a POW in Burma,and he had been tortured and was a bag of nerves ( unsurprisingly.) At least he came home though, unlike others.