Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

So who is 'arrogant, superficial and uninformed' anniebach posters on here who don't agree with you, David Cameron, Corbyn, Jewish people?

This was called an unpleasant thread, a vile thread, by some posters, which is baffling.Because it had to do with the Labour Party?
But yes, there probably isn't anything much left to say on the subject now.

A good leader can engage in a debate frankly and throughly, knowing that at the end he and the other side must be closer and thus emerge stronger. You don't have that idea when you are arrogant, superficial and uniformed

Nelson Mandela

This is going round in circles we agreed that it was not anti-semetic to dislike the actions of Israel sometime ago.

rosesarered, Who exactly is denying that there's anything happening within the Labour Party? Corbyn isn't.

I do not accept that pushing an anti-Israel agenda is anti-Semitic by association, nor do the Israelis in opposition or many Jews around the world.

blueskies, Yes, I've noticed that too. They say more or less the same thing and use the same tactics. Do you think they have a handbook? ;-)

absent, Maybe you mixed in different circles. I certainly knew that the world was a dangerous place and I remember being scared of IRA bombs, but we wanted to make the place a better place. I'm not sure that people today have the same objectives.

Of course there have been wars since the end of WW2, but Europe has still been more peaceful since then. I remember being shocked by Russian action in Czechoslovakia and Hungary, but I wasn't paranoid about the Cold War. I travelled in Eastern Europe before the wall came down and it was fine, albeit a bit irritating with visas and the occasional search, but there's no way I would go to the Middle East or some other parts of the world now.

After this was brought up at this week's PMQ's, perhaps Corbyn will do something about it.

POGS, you make many interesting points in your posts, it does seem that certain groups in and around the Labour Party ( Momentum, and others) are pushing an anti-Israeli and anti-semitic by association agenda.There seem to be a lot of unpleasant types within these groups all clinging to Labour's coat tails. If I was a Labour supporter I would not be happy with this at all. To simply deny that anything unpalatable could happen within a Political Party because you yourself vote that way, is hard to understand.If people really find anti-semitism horrible, then they should not mind matters being dragged into the light.Corbyn should investigate what is going on, otherwise it will look as if he doesn't care.

Well this one must be the exception that proves the rule!

blueskies I don't know what forums you go on, but those that i read are completely opposite - criticising Israel, pleading for the Palestinians.

interesting how on the many diverse forums in which I have an interest up will pop a post complaining of anti Semitism and defending the actions of Israel. The posts are cleverly manipulative and the poster is like a dog with a bone. They won't let go. I love a good debate but will not play along....

And there was Vietnam...
'bout time we had a senior politician who was not (cynically) flying a flag for religion. If it was not for the Blairs we might have got rid of divisive "faith schools" a while back. Gove opened the door to a lot more when he invented "free schools"

Obviously nothing to with anti Semitism.

Just a thought: most Palestinians are Semites.

daphnedill My teenage years were also in the 1960s and my twenties in the 1970s. I certainly didn't see the world becoming more peaceful and tolerant – the Cold War was still a terrifying possibility and I remember listening to some military bigwig from the Pentagon talking about "acceptable collateral damage" in Europe if the Americans used their most recently developed nuclear weapons. Brits would inevitably have been part of the collateral damage and the man was obviously very keen to try out the new toys. Acceptable to whom? The stupid Vietnam War was still continuing after all those years – and what for and what did it achieve?

There have been loads more wars since then. Blair's wars number about seven – possibly more, but I have lost count.

Before I go to bed, just wanted to give you another link, POGS. It's to a pdf file, so I hope you can read it. Fascism and anti-Semiticism were alive and well in 1960s Britain, but I guess it was rarely reported in the mainstream press, we didn't have social media and we didn't have the same equality laws. I don't agree that the British are more anti-Semitic than they were in the 1960s (and certainly not before WW2).

afaarchive.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/62_group.pdf

POGS I do see the world becoming harder and uglier and it frightens the hell out of me. My teenage years were in the 60s and 70s, which was a time when it did seem that the world was becoming more peaceful and tolerant. Indeed, Europe has been more peaceful than at any other time in its history. The rise in racism, intolerance, hatred and the real possibility that we might blow ourselves to smithereens is something I don't ignore.

I don't think it's a particularly Labour Party problem and I DO think the current criticism is the result of unseen forces. However, as this thread has progressed, I've seen that there probably is an issue and the party needs to stamp on it. FWIW I don't disagree with the Oxford Uni Labour Party inviting the Anti-Israel Apartheid Party to speak. They've had all sorts of people speaking over the years and I think it's important for free speech that they should be allowed a voice, especially in the context of a university. However, I've read the reports about anti-Semitic songs/pro-Nazi songs and I think it's absolutely correct that people should have been disciplined for those.

I've been following racist groups on the internet for years (long story, but NOT because I'm racist - quite the opposite) and what's going on beyond what the mainstream media report is frightening and vile. I'd never actually seen anybody associated with the Labour Party involved in it, which is why I was suprised. Having said that, the British working class is traditionally socially conservative (with a small 'c') and that includes racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. Think of working man club humour.

My questions at the beginning of this thread were to find out the facts.

Daphnedil

Thank you for replying.

I had no knowlegde of Corbyn's thought on education/schools at all. I don't think I have heard him speak on the matter to be honest and I have watched with interest his comments on Russia Today many times. I will read up on the matter now.

I think he's ideally against ALL faith schools. However, you probably know that some Jewish schools have been deemed as 'requiring improvement' (ie failing) by Ofsted and one, which doesn't teach English, has been ordered to shut. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/charedi-talmud-torah-tashbar-stamford-hill-jewish-school-that-does-not-teach-english-ordered-to-a6813041.html

This is to do with the 'British values' agenda, which, ironically came about as a result of the 'Trojan Horse' muslim schools.

It would appear that Arkush and some other prominent people in the Jewish community have tried to get Corbyn's support, but he's refused and been labelled anti-Semitic for not supporting them. I think it's totally inappropriate to call him anti-Semitic for not supporting a politcal cause.

Corbyn would appear to be in favour of abolishing ALL faith schools www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jul/07/labour-leadership-candidates-education-interviews-burnham-cooper-corbyn-kendall-schools

I rather like a piece in the New Statesman.

'There is an urban legend about being a frog, and it goes like this.

' If you put a frog in a pan of cold water , the frog will sit there quiet calmly until it boils to death. Creeping cultural change is like that. It's hard to spot when you are living inside it. You can stay very still while the mood of society becomes harder and uglier, telling yourself that everything is going to be fine as all around you the water begins to bubble'..

Daphnedil. 23/3/16. 23.47

Interesting, I did not know Corbyn does not support Jewish Faith schools. Does he support Muslim, C of E , Catholic etc. or does want all Faith Schools abolished?
I presume the latter?

Anniebach. 23/3/16. 12.56

You have repeatedly posted you're connections to Labour and if I am mistaken proud of your activism within the party. You repeatedly tell us you are a pacifist. As a ' pacifist ' how do you feel about Stop The War when it calls Hamas and Hezbollah our friends , I am thinking of the Hamas Covenant which basically calls for the 'death to all Jews'.

Your last sentence is another classic . You are showing disgust at the posters that showed Anti Semetic behaviour in the 30's , 'No Jews, no Irish no dogs' I don't think anybody would find those posters anything other than abhorrent in the 21st century , YET, there is a rise in Anti Semetic behaviour and it is simply being pushed aside by those who felt it abhorrent in the 30's. What is the difference between a poster in the 30's saying 'No Jews' and refusing to share a platform with a Jew in 2016. They are both Anti Semetic behaviour. Please tell me , what makes a person see Anti Semetic behaviour in the 30's poster but not in the 2016 refusal to sure a platform with somebody who is Jewish, I simply do not understand how there is a difference.

Most Labour supporters would surely be thinking/saying 'Good on my party for not brushing aside any problems but facing head on any allegations of Anti Semitism in my party'.

I still think the thread should have the title Anti Semitism will no one party singled out,ni may not have been done for political point scoring but it reads as such , racism is vile

Penstemmon I find you post commendable. Given your family history it must be difficult to maintain such a balanced viewpoint. You write about your concerns with understanding and compassion. It is a pity that other posters are unable to take such a balanced view, but perpetually deny that any human rights abuse is happening. It is this attitude that makes people despair and which has driven many people to more radical actions.

Tricia 22/3/16

Your link to left foot forward was providing historical evidence for the most part. I am interested in what is happening in the 21st century. As the article said:-

"Much has changed since then of course the 'Colonel Blimp' element in Conservative associations is dead and buried and David Cameron has made genuine efforts to distance the Nasty Party (not my words ) from UKIP style fruitcake racism".

It also mentions the singing of the song 'Killing of the Kike'. , previously mentioned as 'Nights of Port and Nazi Songs'. sung by Oxford University Conservative students. As previously mentioned some resigned from the group in disgust, the Conservative Party and the University reprimanded students etc. see previous post.

Just to make the point had a thread been started I would not have said it was political point scoring , it was a bloody disgrace on their part of all who joined in.

POGS I was referring to the rather petty arguments which seemed to be about which politicical party was more /less racist than another when I said "sick" I was referring to scoring political points. I do not care about the politiacal banner..if its racist it is racist. I think we agree there!

I do not shy away from debates about racism and I do not find racism against one group more abhorrant than another..it is all equally wrong and dehumanising to both the abused and abuser.