Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

Well said Penstemmon, because of the horrors of WW2 and the founding of Israel it has become unthinkable to criticise Israel because to do so makes on anti X emetic which is so not true, I think Israel is allowed to do what it wants when it wants , the Palastinians are suffering and this is wrong, and saying it is wrong is not anti Semitic, it's the truth

I feel I have kept a very even tone regarding my Palestinian family and roots.

I have stated clearly that I am not a Holcaust denier, that I am not anti-semetic and that I accept there will be an Israeli state and I wholehearedly believe everyone should be allowed live safely and with dignity & respect.

However I cannot sit silently whilst Zionist propaganda is pushed and stated as fact and the history and culture of a whole nation is belittled and undermined. This has been going on unchallenged for so many years, in mainstream press as well as by pressure groups, and those not directly involved often believe it. The assertion that Palestine or people called Palestinians never really existed is painful, and in my opinion racist. The semantics of the name of the region I know as Palestine is pretty irrelevant in some ways. As a key strategic coastal area which has been conquered and ruled by all sorts of different people and renamed as a consequence, a bit like Great Britain, does not mean that there have not been idigenous people inhabiting the area for the duration: Palestinians. Most right minded people feel that the culture, land and rights of the Aborigines, Maori and First Americans etc. were railoaded and abused. The west is allowing the same thing to happen to Palestinians now. The fact that they have tried to fight for their rights is seen by many as aggression. I see it as defence.

I know that my paternal family lived in Palestine, alsongside Palestinian Jews and co-existed for very many years. It was only when the politics of Zionism started fighting for a national home for Jews that the problems really expoded.

I am not posting links.. you can all look for yourselves or find books by Palestinians, to get a more balanced view. There is another story to hear.

Penstemmon. 22/3/16. 10.31

You are correct this is how Nazism grew in the 20's 30's . When shops are targeted in the UK for selling goods from Israel what have we come to. Your comment in your last sentence has been repeated time and time again. There has been much admonishment from posters over the occupied territories , myself included, that is not Anti Semetic behaviour. This is not 'sick' one upmanship on my part but I expect to read such comments.

If that's what it takes to be able to start a thread about the situation then so be it.

Yes I am Whitewave whilst I have been away I can't respond so as I posted previously I will make up for lost time.

Terribull 22/3/16. 18.11

Thank you for acknowledging this is current news and you see no reason this should not be discussed.

You've been busy POGS. Still it keeps the thread going.

Whitewave. 22/3/16. 16.47

This is not political point scoring against the Labour Party. This is current news and it concerns the Labour Party. Do you say the thread headed 'Tory Party Bullying' is political point scoring, of course not, not because you are left wing but that is exactly what it is about. Instead of making accusations of political point scoring on that thread I posted a rational post, that's what discussion debate is about. It is obviously a concern within Labour if so many of their own MP's acknowledge there is a need for the Baroness Royal Inquiry into allegations of Anti Semitism. She may totally exonerate the party , who knows. Point scoring my backside. It must be a shock to some to see a thread that concerns the Labour Party ' for once ' but for heavens sake look at the widely known, easy to find information available to accept this is current affairs and this is not the Labour Party Activists Forum it is News and Politics.

So yes I am vehemently denying my OP was point scoring

Your last sentence was ironic. It is precisely because we do know the 'dreadful historical connotations' of Anti Semitism that it must be /should be stopped from rearing it's ugly head once more. It is a good thing Labour are prepared to debate Anti Semitism but it seems to me the far left/activists simply refuse to acknowledge it may be happening or on the rise. That to me is more dangerous and far more worrying than being accused of political point scoring.

daphnedil cont.

You say re point 3. The Labour does oppose the boycott of Israeli goods. The goods involved are those made in the occupied West Bank areas. How do they know which are made in the occupied territory?

Up to 2015 the European Union had a limited free trade agreement with Israel , not the West Bank goods I believe. The European Union does not recognize the occupied territories as part of Israel therefore goods from the occupied territory are not included in 'free' trade.. Two bodies evolved the EU Israel Council and the EU Israel Association Committee. The agreement fell apart in 2015 , as my understanding goes , as Israel doesn't want to conform with the European Court of Justice telling them that goods must be labelled where they are produced from.

It is a very messy business and I understand the voices that call for a boycott of occupied territory goods but the problem is the activism behind the so called boycott of occupied territory goods does not restrict itself to that area. It doesn't know so therefore anything Israeli is fair game hence the removal of goods from our supermarkets due to intimidation when the goods may have originated in the UK. I do not therefore agree with Israel Apartheid Week and boycotting anything and everything that is thought to be from Israel when there is no proof. Some behaviour by activists is tantamount to being anti Semetic behaviour if they demand the removal of all Kosher goods on the 'supposition' they feel it is from Israel. This includes Labour MP's who join them. They are not really interested in where it comes from it is Kosher that's all that matters. I do not like the BDS either irrespective of who belongs to it.

daphnedil. 22/3/16. 14.56

You say you only really know about Europe with regard to the rise of Anti Semitism. I am raising awareness of it here through current political affairs which happens to be Labour connected at this time.

Your Labour 4 point list , to Corbyn I believe.

You say Corbyn was asked 'last year' shows this has been known of for a while and to me mitigates the reason for my OP. It has been and is currently being discussed within the Labour Party whether or not some refuse to accept that point.

1. Repudiate the ideology and behaviour of Hama's and Hezbollah . To my knowledge this has not happened .

2. Whether he would condemn Anti Semitism of the far left as well as the far right. I would hope so.

3. Whether Labour would continue to oppose the boycott of Israel. I don't think that will happen as the connection between Corbyn, Abott, McDonnel et al with 'Solidarity Societies' such as Stop The War would see him viewed as a hypocrite whichever way he went.

4.Whether the Party would continue to support and protect faith schools. I have no idea what Labour believe in. You say he has answered 1 and 2 , has he?. Has Corbyn repudiated the ideology and behaviourHezbollah? and Hezbollah. Corbyn has condemned violence but not the terror groups as far as I read his words. They are clever usage of words but they do not do as requested surely.

Tricia. 22/3/16. 13.28

Your post to POGS was very good and made a valid point but it did not include acts such as refusing to share a platform with somebody because they are a Jew, name calling an individual using the term Zio (Ku Klux Klan preferred) etc. There is no difference between Anti Semetic behaviour or Islamophobic behaviour I agree. but Islamophobia is 'constantly' being spoken of and I am raising awareness of the rise in Anti Semetic behaviour. I do feel this point is being lost. time and time again..

Back to a bit apologies.

Tricia. 22/3/16. 13.35

Your link to the DM which is interesting reports of a Tory councillor candidate who said during the last election campaign 'I could never support a Jew'. That was to my mind Anti Semetic and quite rightly she was made to apologise for her offensive behaviour.

I note the Labour response was as follows " With Anti Semitism on the rise across Europe , it is abhorrent and terrifying that a prospective conservative politician would say something like this". Who could take issue with that statement!

I could not agree more and I am pleased Labour are are saying there is a rise in Anti Semitism throughout Europe and obviously having put in place the Inquiry into ' allegations ' of Anti Semetism amongst it's own party's uniuversity organisations headed by Labour Peer Baroness Royall the party is taking the subject of Anti Semetic behaviour seriously. One would have that was a commendable action.

Sorry, TriciaF. senior moment you understand!!!

I appreciate that Nellie, just checking as my small grandson would say!!!

Tricia my Jewish friends are not reform Jews. They observe the Passover, do not work Saturdays, one friend's mother who is divorced will not even invite her son in law into her flat if he is not accompanied by a female , my female friends accept sitting separately from the men in the tabernacle and no way do one of them accept Christ as the messiah so do not celebrate the Easter festival , I respect this , it's their faith ,

Nigglynellie - not ignoring your support either.
Annie - reform Judaism is very similar to Jesus' version.
And most of the Muslim laws are taken straight from the OT eg food laws, family purity, day of rest Fri. not Sat. to say nothing of the more extreme laws.

There is on line an article about 'The origins of the word Palestine'. It makes for very informative reading and is well worth having a look at.

Very fair Nellimoser

Somewhere in all this I seem to remember a UN declaration I think made after the six day war in ?1967 about the Jewish state being being obligated to give back the land it had captured and not to take any more. As is happening in the still illegal Zionist West Bank Jewish settlements. It seems that the world has rather forgotten that inconvenient piece of legislation.

I am making no comparison of the indescribably awful regime and viciousness of Hitler and his concept of trying to establish "lebensraum" for the Aryan races with the state of Israel's current land grabbing behaviour.

However it always feels to me that the hard line Zionists now wanting their "promised land" as a special land for Jews is a a theory not disimilar to "lebensraum."
However given what many nations and races suffered at the hands of The Nazi party I can understand how the whole episode of the holocaust could still strongly influence that nations psyche to be afraid of any other nations.

The Jews do not accept Christ as the messiah, he did speak out against their teachings , yes he was born a Jew and kept some rituals like the Passover but he challenged their teachings . Mohammad acknowledge Christ as a prophet but not as the messiah .

Oh heavens I too admire Venus fighting spirit, and certainly defend the right of the existence of Israel. I think I've made this clear. I just wish there could be a peaceful settlement agreeable to both sides, but at the moment that seems further away than ever. As in all conflicts there is right and wrong on both sides, seemingly, as often seems the case, sadly insurmountable.

I admire Venus for her fighting spirit, she has been the only person strongly fighting her corner, which I share (I'm a convert to Judaism.)
It all goes to show that Jews often feel alone, because of our small numbers. And mis-understanding of others.
Before I met my Jewish husband I knew very little about Judaism, and looking back think that most non-Jews have never met a Jew, or heard about them at all, apart from the Holocaust.
Now I see the religion as the root of Christianity, (Jesus was a Jew) and Islam.
Wishing your husband better health, Venus.

It would probably be more peaceful ground whitewave!! History is fascinating, so many if buts and maybe's. Plenty to discuss, but not to argue, well, maybe, but only a bit!!!!

It really is good Niggly -we might find ourselves chatting about the course!!!

I have had a look anno, and what a treasure trove! I have gravitated to world history, and the disappearance of five monarchs! I'm back to find out more!! Thank you again.

Thanks anno, I'll have a look, I've certainly got enough time these days!!