Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

And the link to right-wing extremism? I would think this was much more scary than Jeremy Corbyn who simply talks to all the parties concerned and certainly wouldn't support the policies of such people.

trisher

There are obviously strands of anti-semitism and race covers many issues. I oversimplified things but the reality is obviously more complex.

Do you really speak for ALL Jews?
I don't doubt that there are still incidents of anti-semetic nature in many places. I would imagine that most of these are linked to right-wing extremists who really want to spread discord and discontent in communities. We have demonstrations by the EDL who are abusive to migrants and refugees. I would be very concerned if the attitude of this group of people was taken as a true reflection of public opinion.

Oh dear, having said that I wouldn't join in , here I am again! I've never actually met anyone who is anti Jewish, or heard any conversation of that nature, and I have tried to see the whole situation from a balanced point of view. While supporting Israel as a homeland for Jews, I do accept that Israel does at times, go too far in matters of defence. (You could say!) Having said that, it does hidiously, keep a fragile peace, in exactly the same way as Sadam in Iraq, Gadaffi in Libya, Assad in Syria, the army in Egypt. This is only my opinion, and I certainly don't agree with these strong arm methods, but nothing else seems to work. What the answer is I really don't know, but for Israel not to be plunged into chaos like other so called liberated countries in the middle east, what's the alternative?

I would add that I'm deeply proud to be British, I wear the red poppy with pride and love a rousing chorus of the National Anthem. In synagogues on a Saturday morning service, we say a prayer for the continued health and protection of the Royal family.

Yet while Jeremy Crobyn leads the Labour Party, there is much to make Britain's Jewish community feel troubled.

No they are not! I have lots of Jewish friends both practicing and not. I live in part of the country that has always had a vibrant Jewish community - there has never been any issue whatsoever as far as I can remember. Your last sentence suggests that there is a rise of fascism in the UK which is just plain daft. If it is the case rest assured I and my family will be alongside you in our protests. We would be rock solid in defending your right to freedom of religion.

Venus you said
Being anti semitic is a hatred of Jews for no other reason other then their race.
It seems then that you and Irwin Cotler differ or you have modified your views to fit in with his

Whitewave

You are not Jewish. How would you know? How many Jews do you know?

On the contrary, all Jews are very afraid of the situation in this country.

Many have moved to Israel. I have come across anti semitism regularly in my life, and have heard of an instance of one near where I live only this week.

I too, am 70, and I can asure you anti-semitsm is alive and kicking.

Of course there are those amongst Britain's 291,000 strong Jewish community who feel that this bleak moment in modern British history will pass. A similar argument was made in the 1930s.

trisher

Depends if you are for or against certain issues that have been discussed, for example, Political anti semites would be appropriate, but that is only one aspect of the whole.

venus I am really struggling to accept what appears from your posts the level of anti semitism. I am a person of no religion but I do have friends of all religions except Muslim, I know of no one who practices the Islamic religion.

I have reached the age of 70, and I have absolutely no memory of a single person I have ever met where I am aware or heard of anti-Semitic sentiment. That is not to deny it doesn't happen, but I really think the pudding is being over egged.

I had moved on to the right, left wing discussion-sorry to be dragged back

So in fact linking anti-semitism to protests about Israel which I thought we had agreed it isn't. Nor do I think it is Jews who are causing the problems in Israel. I know that there are many Jews who are deeply concerned with the things that are happening there, are they then "contemporary anti-semites"?

Meaning?

Perhaps - if you are looking to feel victimised

I meant, of course, 'Food for thought'.

Regarding the poster who asked about 'Contemporary' Anti semitism, according Irwin Cotler, Professor of Law at McGill University and a leading scholar of human right, has identified 9 aspects of what he considers to constitute the 'new-Semitism'.

Genocide antisemitsm; Calling for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people.

Political antisemitism: Denial of the Jewish people's right to self-determination, de-ligitmization of Israel as a state, attributions to Israel of all the world's evils.

Ideological antisemitsm: 'Nazifying' Israel by comparing Zionism and racism

Theological antisemitism: Convergence of Islamic antisemitism and Christian 'replacement' theology, drawing on the classical hatred of Jews.

Cultural antisemitism: The emergence of anti-Israel attitudes, sentiments, and discourse in 'fashionable' salon intellectuals

Economic antisemitsm: BDS movements and the extra application of restrictive covenants against countries trading with Israel.

Holocaust denial

Anti-Jewish racist terrorism

International legal discrimination ('Denial to Israel of equality before the law in the international area'); Differential and discriminatory treatment towards Israel in the international area.

Cotler argues that classical antisemitsm is discrimination against Jews as individuals, whereas the new antisemitism, in contrast, 'is anchored in discrimination against Jews as a people - and the embodiment of that expression in Israel.. .'

Mmmm, thought for thought, I'd say?

Watching this thread progressing (or not) - I will say I have learned a lot about the history as my knowledge was very sketchy.

I have though come to this conclusion. Anti semitism/racism is an abhorrent phenomenon. Unfortunately there is undoubtedly pockets of it at all levels of society and in many institutions, sometimes overt usually covert.

However, I have read and re-read the original post together with subsequent posts and cannot help but come to the conclusion that there was no doubt an element of point scoring in relation to one particular political party. This will be vehemently denied. If this was not the intention then the OP heading should have not identified a particular group, when we seem largely in agreement that anti semitism is to be found at all levels, although not to extent that some people appear to suggest.

What makes me most alarmed is that political point scoring which I am all for (it is fun and makes for good debate) should never extend to using such a concept with all its dreadful historical connotations.

I think you're right whitewave, not only the budget but now this awful terrorist attack, I can see everyone who is anyone has got their hands full! I hate to go on, but I do get incensed by this sort of discrimination. How about the women tennis players?!! What an outrage!!!! but I digress!! If we could just have an opinion it would be a start! Anyhow thanks for your interest and concern.

An interesting article about the growth of right wing politics which has a quote from Nigel Farage www.transatlanticacademy.org/node/792
It considers the way that religious differences are being used to create mis-trust and conflict

niggle oh no in fact I had forgotten about it. I will send a reminder, although I can imagine the budget and the goings on in the Tory Party are probably taking everyone's attention.

In passing I wonder if whitewave has had a reply to her inquiry about Labour's attitude towards female Muslim councillors? Just wondered if anyone knew?!

I agree with you Venus, but I'll have to keep off this thread because as I see it, the well balanced discussion of this morning, will almost certainly turn into a political row, and in my opinion is one best steered clear of. You know what you think, I know what I think, and for me it's best left at that. So I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to it, sorry!!!!

daphnedill

How about this for the record regarding Mr.Corbyn

Here stands a man who has been connected to Holocaust denier Paul Eisen and who exhorts us to be 'friends' with terror organisations Hezbollah and Hamas.

And what of Mr Corbyn's support for boycotting and delegitimsing the state of Israel? A view - even if the Labour leader cannot see it - helps fuel anti Semitism, since unreconstructed protest groups seamlessly conflate anti-Zionism with antipathy towards world Jewry.

Already leaders from The Board of British Jews and the Jewish Leadership Council have written to the new Labour leader requesting talks to clarify his position on matters such as faith schools.

Meanwhile Jews feel a sense of foreboding akin to how the Jews of Germany felt in Germany in the early 1930s.

Look no further than David Mercer, a former director of Labour Friends of Israel, who has just left the party after 20 years as a result of Corbyn's election. As he says; 'When I listen to Corbyn speak on almost any issue, I get the feeling this is a man who doesn't like my community.'

According to figures released last July, there was a 53% rise in the number of anti Semitic incidents in the U.K. in the first half of the year compared to the same period the year before.

I have never suggested that being pro Palestinian is being anti semitic. I did say anyone who supports a terrorist group, such as Hamas is.

Being anti semitic is a hatred of Jews for no other reason other then their race. It dates back to ancient times. It means they are discriminated against as a racial group and it can manifest itself in various ways, from organized violent attacks by mobs, state police or even . . . military attacks on entire Jewish communities. The Polgrums, crusades 1096, massacres of Spanish Jews 1391, Spanish inquisition and expulsion from Spain 1492, Cossack massacres in Ukraine 1648-1655, porgums in Imperial Russia 1821-1906, Drefus Affair in France 1894-1906, Holocaust, official soviet anti-Jewish policies and Arab and Muslim involvement in the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries. These are all examples of anti semitism.

Why is this so? People are always wary of 'other'; different traditions and customs which they don't understand. Percieved prominence and success in what they do can promote jealousy. The fact that Jews were forced to earn a living in the middle ages as money lenders made them hated. Most popular misconception for being hated is that the Jews killed Jesus.

OK, so let's return to the Labour Party and anti-Semiticism and not get distracted.

My first question when I saw the thread title was why is this making news when anti-Semiticism in other groups is ignored.

Secondly, I asked myself whether the anti-Semiticism is endemic or a few isolated incidents.

Thirdly, I wondered what the anti-Semitic accusations were all about.

So what are your views, POGS?