Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

nigglynellie, What does Israel's self defence policies have to do with anti-Semiticism? Not everybody who condemns the current Israeli government is anti-Semitic.

Venus, Please could you could further evidence of the extent to which the Labour Party is infiltrated by anti-Semiticism.

I wonder why you called the second example Gerry Dowling, when his name is actually Downing. The only example I could find of Dowling was a YouTube interview with Andrew Neil. I eventually found plenty on Gerry Downing. The man is a Trotskyist and quite obviously has very extremist views. I've watched the interview with Neil and his views are unreformed Trotskyism. He explains 9/11 in historical terms and I don't disagree with some of what he says. That doesn't mean that I condone the 9/11 attack nor that I'm anti-Semitic. I can't say I even begin to understand his charges of Zionism, because it's a term which gets thrown around by all sorts of people who don't seem to have much understanding of what it is.

Vicki Kirby seems to be a very silly person and has rightly now been thrown out of the Labour Party. Interestingly, she was reinstated when Ed Miliband was leader. I wonder how much he knew about it and whether he ever felt that he was the victim of anti-Semiticism within the party. I can only find one source of the picture of Kirby with Corbyn. Do you know when it was taken?

I don't agree with the premises in your last paragraph. What exactly is anti-Israel politics and how would pro-Israel politics be the politics of peace?

Frankly, I'm quite shocked by all this and I'm trying to find out more evidence. Issues are very confused. I know quite a bit about anti-Semiticism in the UK, for all sorts of reasons. However, I have never come across it as a specifically Labour Party problem, which is why I'm cynical about the reason it's being raised now.

A lot of countrys have American backing, but still manage to end up in chaos! Whatever you think of Israel, chaos not a word that comes to mind!

Nice to have American backing...

IS will never attack Israel as they know Israel'll will obliterate them. No country will attack Israel for the same reason. Israel is the only country that truly defends and protects its people, that's why other much bigger and presumably much more powerful countries that surround Israel leave it alone even to the point of steering well clear of the conflict in Gaza. Awful though this was, it proved that Israel is not to be messed with. Probably something to do with the rest of the world hating them and tiny though they are, completely responsible for their own defense without any physical back up from anywhere.

POGS no need to apologise, just wanted to be sure the information didn't get hidden amongst lots of larger posts. Sorry to hear about your phone call.

Really! No form of anti semitism in the Labour Party?

In 2014, Vicki Kirby was warned by the Labour Pary for posting anti semitic tweets. 'We invented Israel when saving them from Hitler, who now seems to be their teacher,' she wrote. She also asked why Isis was not attacking the 'real oppressor, 'evil' Israel. A picture of Corbyn and Kirby, smiling happily together, has been circulating online.

Last week, Gerry Dowling was expelled from the Labour Party, but only after David Cameron raised his case at Prime Minister's Questions, after having been allowed to re-join following a previous expulsion. Dowling believes that Zionism is at the heart of global capitalism and he advocates reopening the 'Jewish Question'. He also said explicitly what Kirby implied - that terrorism is the violence of the oppressed and should never be condemned; it is fundamentally defensive against the real aggression, which is the violence of the global system, of which Jews and Zionism are a key element.

Labour now has a leader who supports the campaign for a boycott of Israel, who prefers anti-Israel politics to the politics of peace and who has shown himself to be quite unable to recognise antisemitism.

I feel very uncomfortable looking at this thread.

Nothing or no one in my experience has ever shown any form of anti - semitism in the Labour Party. There are reports of it happening amongst a statistically immaterial number of Labour Party members, as there are with the Tory Party. They are dealt with appropriately.

Discussing it gives fuel to these people, don't give them any form of thought. They simply need shutting down - pronto!

Anti semitism has been around for generations, long before the Palestinian question arose.

Are we discussing anti semitism as we all know it, or the question of Israeli occupation of certain territories?

They are completely separate issues, and should be discussed as such.

The problem seems to arise that there is a section of people who equate them and that is what is fuelling hatred of the Jewish people. Jews have always been scapegoats in pretty much every European country and beyond. This is just another excuse to fuel hatred.

Can we please be aware that Israel pays students to infiltrate forums as trolls to complain of anti Semitism to counter rightful criticism of Israel.

Just saying........

Trisher

I thought Venus made a perfectly sensible comment to be honest. It's similar to saying hatred only generates more hatred.

There are indeed many of the Jewish origin who support Palestine over the 'occupied territory' problem for one. But I dare say they do not go so far as to agree with Hamas who want death to all Jews and if you look at Amnesty International for example Hamas abducted, tortured , murdered Palestinians they accused of collaboration. Yet some organisations are willing to call them their friends and will willingly share a platform with them. There is a blurred line in the mindset of some people in my opinion.

I still come back to the interpretation of what constitutes Anti Semitism and supporting Palestine over certain issues against Israel is not Anti Semetic. There is a far more worrying underbelly of hatred however that is surfacing and I am not afraid to mention it nor hide from the fact it is happening . I have given credit to some Labour MP's but there must be an accepted problem if the party has instigated an Inquiry and there is so much coverage by left/right/center media outlets and commentators and after all isn't it healthy to have debate rather than shove it under the carpet and let matters fester.

Wilma

My apologies I took an unhappy phone call I should have replied to your post, thank you.

If found to be true I have exactly the same feeling, there is no place for Anti Semitism within any party and anyone found to be Anti Semetic should be forced out.

POGS Venus said "Hostility to Israel is partly caused by antisemitism and is also itself a cause of further antisemitism."
I wanted to show that there are Jews who are opposed to Israeli actions.

POGS did you see my post giving the information you asked Whitewave for?

Nobody has said supporting Palestine or opposing Israel is Anti Semetic have they? That point has been made repeatedly.

It is not a right wing media/Telegraph story either is it? The accusations have come from within the Labour Party.

Supporting Palestinians and objecting to the actions of Israel which is in breach of so many UN regulations is not anti-semetic. There are a number of Jewish organisations that support this
jfjfp.com/ supporters of Palestine
and
www.ijan.org/ anti Zionists

The anti-semetic allegation is aimed at curbing the growing movement to support the people of Palestine.

Gerald Kaufman has every right to express his opinion as to the behaviour of Israel - and, as a Jewish person himself, I think it is ridiculous to suggest that he is an "anti-Semite" or, as some have called him, a "self-hating Jew".

The fact is that in the British parliament there are two very powerful pro-Israeli support groups: the Conservative Friends of Israel group, which includes 80% of Conservative MPs, i.e. around 240, and a Labour Friends of Israel group which contains around 79 Labour MPs.

There is a Labour Friends of Palestine group which contains around 131 MPs. There is no Conservative Friends of Palestine group.

If after investigation it is found that any Labour Party members have made anti-semitic comments or behaved in an anti-semitic way, then they should be expelled from the party.

It is worth saying, though, that Conservative MPs such as David Davies of Monmouth and Chris Joannides of Enfield found themselves in deep water for making what can only be described as Islamophobic comments - racism isn't exclusive to one party or aimed at just one ethnic group/nationality. And whilst making stereotypical and denigrating characterisations of a person on the grounds of their ethnicity can never be justified, opposing another country's government's policies and actions is not racist.

Information about Oxford University Conservatives and Anti-Semitism

Oxford Tories' nights of port and Nazi songs

Wikipedia Section 6 Controversy

Sorry, can't track down the video.

There are about 400,000 Labour Party members so some unpleasant tweets by one person can hardly be seen as representative.
If the person is to be suspended then there are , I would guess, procedures to go through, rather than just an edict by the leader. But the Telegraph etc are trying to turn it into an anti-Corbyn story. Could be they want to deflect attention from the budget. And we can look forward to more in similar vein when Elliot Johnson's inquest resumes at the end of the month.
The argy bargy about Palestine and whether or not it is anti-semitic to criticise Israel has been going on since I was a student in the early 70s. And it will no doubt rumble on for a few more decades.
I do note with interest that we have regular updates on BBCR4 Today about the number of anti-semitic incidents (always on the rise) but never the number of anti-muslim incidents (which I would guess are far higher these days).
I was very much embarrassed once when attending a school holocaust memorial day as chair of governors, sitting next to our MP who had long fought against the ill-treatment of Palestine. The point of this celebration is usually to broaden out the message about prejudice and discrimination. There were no Jewish kids in the school. The teacher had invited a chap from the Israeli embassy who treated us to a lecture on how Jews were a very special people. How to win friends and influence people.

TriciaF, I don't understand why Gerald Kaufman should keep his views to himself. He has every right to be critical of the Israeli government, as have people within Israel itself.

I don't agree that being critical of the current Israeli government is antisemitic, nor do I think that everybody who is antisemitic is pro-Palestine or sympathetic to any Muslim cause. As far as I can see, much of the current antisemiticism in Europe is coming from neo-Nazi right wing thugs.

I am 'suggesting' nothing Whitewave I am making a statement, I can find nothing.

You stated there was an issue with Oxford and the Conservatives whilst discussing Anti Semitism but I can't agree nor disagree with your statement if I can find no information or you do not provide it.

The trouble is that there are Jewish Labour MPs who criticise the Israeli govt. - ie Gerald Kaufman.
Maybe more, I don't know, but he should keep his views to himself in public.

What are suggesting POGS?

Perhaps it isn't there to be found or it would be posted I am sure.

I am sorry you can't find anything relating to anti semitism in the Tory party, and the way in which it was dealt.

Still, as you say the Labour Party is taking it very seriously.