Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

Can't believe how this thread has descended into an argument about who killed Jesus, the Romans or the Jews. The killing of Jesus, has been a spurious allegation heaped on the Jewish population ever since, and no doubt one of the reasons they have been unjustly targeted over the years. The Romans were also complicit but the people of Rome have not been reviled in the same way, and neither should they be, equally neither should the Jews have been. The Jews have suffered at the hands of Christians over the centuries, it is one of the many stains that mar the Catholic church in particular. How can any race be held responsible for what happened 2000 years ago.

Racism of any kind:against any group or individual( including Jews) is wrong. Any political party needs to make it clear that any member supporting /making/ promoting racist attitudes will be dismissed from the party. There have been a couple of Labour members recently who were thrown out. I guess in both main parties it is possible that groups deliberately infiltrate to influence or discredit the party. Politics is a murky world. However as long as a strong stance is taken by leaders to remove /prevent racism in all its guises the message should be clear. We shoul all take responsibility to voice disapproval by joining groups/ campaigning etc. against the growing nazi/fascist groups.

Daphnedil, when The Protocols of The Elders of Zion was published it caused many to fear, even though it was later said to be a fraud many still believed it to be true. I find trying to discuss this topic difficult, knowing one is leaving one's self open to another wild accusation , this alone perhaps explains why Israel is not criticised , since WW2 the west suffered much guilt and so Israel has become a sacred cow , above criticism and heaven help anyone who does.

We can criticise America, Russia, China, every country in Europe , every country in the world and no problem, a criticism of Israel ? No way

Still no reply to the activities of Hammas , or Hizbollah (spelling)!! Just like the Muslim ladies!!! Funny how the left is so adept at avoided answering awkward questions that might just tarnish their halos¡¡¡
ab I spent seven years in an Anglo Catholic (C of E) convent school as a border, and I know the story of the crucifixion perfectly well. I was pointing out correctly that the Romans actually crucified Christ, with Tiberius having the final word. How this came about, I didn't allude to. You know this perfectly well and quite frankly your sarcastic comments are childish and pathetic!!
So a lot of the persecuted Jews weren't really Jews at all! and weren't believers!!! and you know this for a fact?!! Perhaps you were there?!! Perhaps you read it somewhere!!!!
Like Venus, I'm really disgusted with the comments on this thread aimed mostly at one person. You should be ashamed.
Come on ab give POGs your opinion about Hammas etc, you must have one surely, oh, and the Muslim ladies?!!!!

Anniebach

Now you have done U Turn and rejoined the thread did you read my post to you 19.02.

Answers commeth there none.

ab, I find the whole question much more interesting than bickering about what happened 3000 or even 2000 years ago? You're absolutely right. Shakespeare and Dickens (and many more) portrayed Jews negatively. Why?

Israel is a modern state and I believe it's valid to criticise its actions, just as many Israelis do.

Have you ever read Thomas Aquinas' 'Just War Theory'?

You might find it enlightening.

Good question Daphne, it is a hatred which went for centuries, think of Shakespeare , Dickens, too tired to list more tonight .The hatred seemed to halt following WW2 , now it has gone to the other extreme, any race can be criticised but not the Jews, criticise any Jew and one is anti Semitic, a. Dry good safeguard in. Y opinion, like all races, there are good and bad

Anniebach

I am only interested to know the answer to my question.

I am not interested in debating Christiaity other than how can pacifists and committed Christians take the occasional diametrically opposed position to the principle of believing we should not kill or harm another person and to oppose war, miltarism and violence.

Aha! Thank you for the explanation, ab.

I doubt very much that the majority of real anti-Semites have any knowledge whatsoever of ancient history.

I must admit I don't have an academic, theological knowledge of any religion. I'm an atheist and really can't be bothered with discussions about ancient history, theology or nit-picking about the rights and wrongs of various religions, because I believe they're all a human construct. I'm a pragmatist and am more concerned about finding compromises to make the lives of people living today more tolerable.

I strongly believe that there is a group of people who are inherently racist and seem to justify their lives by being opposed to anybody different. I don't understand the mentality.

PS. I know that there are people who oppose the idea of anti-Semitism as racism, because Jews aren't a race. I'm still trying to get my head round this. Many of the Jews who were murdered during WW2 weren't believers. They were secular and many of them weren't even genetically mostly Jewish, because inter-marriage had been common in Europe for centuries. If it wasn't racism, what was it? The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto weren't rich by any means and there was no way they could be included amongst the group of Jewish bankers, who have been accused of controlling markets, so why were they so hated, if it wasn't racism?

And as Christ was killed by the Romans according to niggle and Venus, we can all stop saying Henry Eighth did not kill his wives

Daphnedill, Venus has accused me of being anti Semitic , this she based on a post in which I replied to nigglenellies post - the Roman milked Christ, I replied with the correct event ,
Pilot found no fault with Christ, it was the feast of the Passover so be ores fed .barabas and Christ to the crowds giving them the choice of who should be freed abd who should due, they chose barabas be freed. I did not write the bible , I suggest niggle reads it though . I assume Venus wasn't in the crowd 2,000 years ago so I fear I gave her what she has been desperate for,

POGS.you brought Christianity into the thread, you may not know Christianity and the crucifixion cannot be selected M but I think you know this

Venus, You should start TWO threads - one about Israel and another about anti-Semitism. They're different topics

Venus, Please could you show where somebody's anti-Semiticism has reared its ugly head?

Yes, it does matter if you copy/paste without acknowledging your source, because readers assume that either it's a fact or your personal opinion. In this case, it's neither.

Why should the thread be locked? Nobody has even touched on the issue of the reasons for anti-Semitism over the centuries. These have nothing at all to do with the state of Israel, WW2 or Palestine, because it's being going on for so long. Personally, I don't understand why Jews have been so hated for hundreds of years and I'm still trying to understand why. I get quite irritated by red herrings such as allegations of certain political parties being involved. It's a much bigger issue than politics, involving the psychology of racism.

Venus

With all due respects I have apologised to Penstemmon re my comment concerning the 're igniting' of the thread.

I really do wish somebody would start a thread to discuss the Palestine/Israel conflict and not use this thread to continue the argument which is a far bigger question than the question initiated in the OP. (fedupemoticon)

Annibach, I find your post concerning concerning the Crucifixion totally inflammatory and offensive. The Romans were responsible for the death of Jesus, Pontius Pilate in particular. . . . and you say your not an anti-semite! Pilate was a despot who executed trouble makers and killed scores of Jews. The Jews had no control over who killed Jesus. It's people like you that have caused antisemitism throughout the centuries. It is a venomous hate statement if ever I heard one.

And daphnedill, I couldn't care less if it's copy/paste. Of course it's an opinion, what else can it be, but one I happen to agree with.

I no longer want to be associated with this thread. I was just wondering when someone's anti semitism was going to rear its head and it has just done so by one poster.

This thread was reignited by an inflammatory post as POGS pointed out, backed up by Annibach. It should have died then. No one can know everthing about this subject, it is too complex, unless you are a professor on Middle Eastern affairs. I quoted what I thought was appropriate. I don't look at where others get their info, it's not important. I have put my case forward that Israel must secure it's borders to keep secure.

However, I think what Annibach said is the final straw, and I don't want to be associated with a thread where no one says anything against her post except nigglynellie. You won't see me here again.

This thread should be locked, and the key thrown away!

Venus, Your quote is another copy/paste. It's not a fact. It's an opinion from the right-wing Jewish Home Party.

www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/28293/Default.aspx

Thanks POGS.

Who has mocked the crucifixion?

I wasn't even thinking of Easter , what has it got to do with this thread?

Won't hold my breath though...

Thought not, ab.

Penstemmon

Fair point I apologise for that accusation.

Anniebach

Anniebach That's a shame I was going to ask you this.

Inform me, why did I not take any interest in the Northern Ireland peace process?

Saturday 26th. 15.16. You posted Anti Semitism is NOT part of Labour politics.

Sun 27th. 13.25. You posted ' One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter'. You agree with everything Corbyn does and have told us of your activism so I am of the belief you and indeed others agree with Stop The War. I asked what do you think of the ' Hamas Covenant '. Death to all Jews. To which after asking twice there came no response.

I find it confusing what declaring to being a pacifist appears to mean at times. Does it/can it mean turning a blind eye when it suits. I thought to be a pacifist it meant to oppose war, militarism, violence. A pacifist believes we should not kill or harm other people. Again for an undoubted committed christian I would have thought it very difficult to defend an organisation that declares death to entire race of people. What point am I missing, where am I going wrong in my understanding of what to be a pacifist means.

I do not think I "reignited" this thread. I have worked hard to maintain a civil and reasoned debate. I have expressed my own opinions & experience and not used Wiki quotes or internet propaganda or even reasoned media articles. That is why I am a member of a forum. I like to debate. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, especially about Palestine as I know I am usually in the minority with that. If people want to have their opinions accepted unchallenged join a cosy support club not an open forum.

gave the Jews the choice on the Passover, who should be saved and who should die, the Jews chose Barabus to be freed and Christ to die, hardly a whisper in the ear nigglenellie

That is all to say, when MSF are condemned as liars and the truth of the crucifixion is mocked then yes. Out of here