Something positive about this government

Sorry iPad went wrong had to get help to sort it. No didn't know he was in Brighton.

Gracesgran, these are notes for a speech Murphy is giving in Brighton tonight.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/21/the-politics-of-the-good-life-and-the-joy-of-tax/

Just keep clicking on the image as it comes up, and eventually you will get one big enough to read.

Are you going to it, whitewave?

roses I am at a loss to see what has made you go. My political views are nothing to do with why I think we need to talk openly and often about mental health, what alleviates it and what can trigger it. In this case there have been reported suicides where a person's situation has deteriorated due to the additional worry about the impact of political decisions on their circumstances. It is a fact.

I didn't know,i see they have targeted the South Wales valleys yet again , all labour seats

They have a majority of twelve so will have to get everyone in for the vote

So can mps vote on a budget that doesn't balance?

If the answer is yes what is the point?

Agree, Gracesgran. (Not about how you put it over, I hasten to add; you do it very well.) However, most people are not even prepared to consider what he says. Perhaps we need a citizen's income thread.

I have just been directed to the government's announcement website, where they list everything from every department.

www.gov.uk/government/news/all-welsh-jobcentres-switch-over-to-universal-credit

Did any of you Welsh GNs know about this? It seems strange timing when the Welsh secretary has just been put in charge of the DWP.
Did Cameron and Osborne know about this?

I just wish I could put it over as he does Jen. I have seen more discussion of the citizen’s income recently on less political discussion sites, which he feels can now be discussed (penultimate para). I do wish we could see more investigation of this.

He is right though. If those who don't take such a deep interest but just believe what the mainly right-wing press tells them start to question the ideology, I feel it will start to unravel.

Gracesgran, Richard Murphy agrees with you about IDS.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/21/its-more-important-to-consign-osbornes-ideology-to-history-than-the-man-himself/

Roses, there is lots of proof that benefit cuts and sanctions have caused people to commit suicide.
I have put links on.
Just because you do not want to read them or believe it does not make it false.
IDS is hiding from the facts, too.

So am off the thread to leave you to it.

.......is it even worth my attempting a point of view on this emotive subject with left wing people for whom point scoring has no boundaries?The answer is likely to be a resounding NO.

Roses It is of course the illness that causes people to consider or carry out suicide Iam fully aware of that. However it is very foolish to ignore triggers.

If it is uncomfortable for politicians to hear that the impact of some of their policies is an increasing factor in causing those with clinical depression to become more ill I am not sorry. We all need to make decisions with the widest understanding of the impact it will have. Increasingly professional politicians appear to have less and less awareness of or empathy for the end impact of their policies on 'hard working' people! i am including former Labour politicians too, not just Conservatives!

Not spoken of to score political points, as well you know.

Rosesarered, I did not ask what we could do, it was you who brought up what you thought people should do,

Rosesarered, no one has said all suicides are caused by this or any government , the reasons are legion , not all cancer deaths are caused by smoking but smoking does cause some cancer deaths , I am truely sorry you are upset but in honesty you know the subject of suicide cannot be ignored or not spoken of

Gracesgran your post is hardly of a Christian nature ( or shall we say a kind nature.)

Two minutes ago anniebach on the Holy Week thread you were wondering what we could do, and I suggested being nicer for a while?
No point being down on your knees praying, while keeping on ensuring that this thread goes on and on ( and on) stupidly blaming politics for deaths.

Thank you Day6 an excellent post.
Penstemmon this is not a subject for political threads. Anything at all can push people with depression over the edge at any time.If it's not perceived threat of poverty, it's loss of a relationship ( should we blame the girlfriend?)
Or not getting the job at interview, or more often than not, a general sense if worthlessness and impending doom.Besides that, blaming high suicide numbers on any government we have is ridiculous and unproven.
But fine, carry on mentioning it, see how many times you can get the word suicides into political posts.

Well said Penstemmon, mental illness is pushed aside so easily , not to be discussed, well it needs to be discussed because there is a rise in the number of mental health suffers and the higher the number the more risk of more suicides. No one speaks of suicide as if it is a joke, it's a nightmare

Are what brought up to score political points obieone..?

roses I too have had to cope with suicide in my family but my stance may be different from yours..I believe the more we talk about it and air the situations that can contribute to someone taking that step the better it is.
For me shying away from talking about suicide can collude with the negative attitude society generally has about people who are mentally ill .

If the percieved threat of poverty, greater debt etc is contributing to some people with a mentall illness becoming more ill and closer to, or fulfilling, suicide then it is better we all talk about it.

I imagine they would be brought up if they were relevant to the discussion obieone. If people are being driven to extremes by the perverse sanctioning which surely no one can believe are not happening, then it will come into the discussion.

It should surely be the subject we are discussing and not forum members personal issues?

Are they brought up to attempt to score dubious political points?

My husband whom I adored died in a car crash, I would not expect the subject of car crashes never to be mentioned, I also lost two babies but would never expect or ask that still births never be mentioned . We cannot avoid the fact we have suffered grief and loss

I have a comfortable home and a reliable work pension based on a 40year working life.

In my job I worked with families in areas of deprivation and of comparative wealth (but not the exceptionally wealthy) but mostly the working 'poor' on that difficult borderline.

My parents did not come from comfortable 'middle class' backgrounds..we all 'earned' our money through wages/salaries not inherited /invested money.

I have had my fair share of personal difficulties including supporting and managing close relatives with serious mental health issues, relationship & financial disasters. I have relatives with significant disabilities but who make the most of life and try to work as hard as they can.

I have close family and friends who do or have worked in the public sector, private businesses and who are/were self-employed, some of whom struggle to make ends meet and some who have money to spare.

I say all this to illustrate that I am not in cloud cuckoo land or in a bubble.

My politics are left wing but I am not a loonie nor am I prejudiced against all Tories..I even have friends who are 'true blue'!

I object to the generalisation that those of us on the left are unaware of the fears and worries of the 'working' right . I just do not happen to agree with them.

You have my sympathy Roses I can imagine how this insensitivity to your request must hurt but please believe that the majority of us empathise and respect your wishes.

Day6 I agree with much of what you said. I am not attached to any political party but do not wish to vote for JC and as a result it seems I am heartless and uncaring. I am not but it is not appropriate to list what good things I do or have done to help others.

I believe in motivating people to work hard and achieve their best. That sometimes means tough love but in the end it is best for the individual. As parents that is what we do so our children can learn that life is their own responsibility.

I would prefer to give more to people who are not in a position to help themselves but determining which they are would be an unpopular process. I retrained in my 40s to help my family and was told that it was OK for me to do that because I was strong minded! One son has done that same in his 30s and is very successful. Not everyone can do this but an awful lot is down to attitude.

Can anyone suggest a reason we have 2 big issue sellers when our unemployment is 0.9% please?