23 June.

sorry findery.com/skimbaco/notes/smaller-is-better-yes-in-madeira

I will get used to this one day

https://findery.com/skimbaco/notes/smaller-is-better-yes-in-madeira
and they are delicious

Oh no! There I was thinking that I was going to write a best-seller! Maybe I'll call it 'Fifty Shades of Yellow'!

Seriously, there are an awful lot of myths about bananas and plantains. There have been special import taxes into the EU (ie no tax) for bananas from certain countries, because the EU recognised that some countries depend very heavily on growing bananas and didn't want to bankrupt them. There has been some controversy, because some countries weren't excluded from the import duty-free deal.

Madeira is in the EU, so has had to face competition from exporters from Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean, who can grow on a massive scale. Presumably if the UK were to leave the EU, the price of bananas from all countries would rise (and Britons would have to pay more), unless the UK negotiated a special deal. It would have to negotiate deals with EU and non-EU growers.

Bananas are an example of a crop which hasn't been protected by the EU setting import tariffs. If the UK does leave the EU, we would be faced with having to set duties for every crop we import. I guess the process would create jobs for redundant EU officials - and more.

I suspect this may be one of those apocryphal tales about the EU that are so widely believed.
trisher not one I heard here in the UK where these stories go around, but told to us by the people on Madeira whose livelihood had gone.

I believe that the ruling about the bananas (ladyfinger bananas? small and sweet) was relaxed but too late for most of the farmers there.

I feel as if I am going bananas

When we had a guest house in York we quite often had people to stay who were working at the research centre for agriculture.
One of them was a man who was writing a book about bananas, so you might be too late, daphne.
How many books on bananas do we need?

The topic of 'bananas' is quite interesting. I once (jokingly) said I'd write a book about them. For example, they were used by post-War Labour Government as a 'pick me up' for people still suffering the effects of rationing. They've also been subject to various tax deals. Anyway, the fact that some producers have given up is more likely to do with Walmart. For some reason, Walmart decided that bananas should become a loss leader.

www.bananalink.org.uk/does-british-banana-market-make-sense

Nothing to do with the EU wanting straight, curved or whatever-shaped bananas.

Jalima from what I was told and saw banana production in Madeira remains a strong and thriving industry. I think they do export a small quantity. I suspect this may be one of those apocryphal tales about the EU that are so widely believed.
The Commonwealth may be a valuable connection but we should never forget it was built on the remains of the British Empire and we should enter into agreements where we are just an equal partner.
JessM I think the legacy of WW2 should always be remembered. This and the international nature of our involvement in the EU are what I would like to see emphasised. Economics are one of those things even the experts disagree about and seem to be the thing most of the discussion is based on.

You're absolutely right *trisher" - I guess I am feared that things are not going well for the Uk at the moment and that a Brexit would make things worse in the medium-short term. But there is indeed a bigger picture. The EU started because Europeans had been slaughtering each other on a grand scale and those who had lived through 2 wars wanted it never to happen again.

Yes, we were impressed by the tunnels in Madeira. However, we were told that the banana industry on Madeira was decimated by EU rules years ago - the type of bananas they grew there were not of the required size.

Swings and roundabouts.

I was so pleased to watch the Commonwealth service in Westminster Abbey recently; sometimes I feel that we had abandoned the Commonwealth in our eager pursuit of being in the EU.

What dismays me most about this campaign is the way both sides focus entirely on "what will be best for Britain. Whatever happened to internationalism? I want to stay in because I recognise that the EU has supported and developed poorer countries than ours and enabled them to raise the living standards of their people and we should be involved in that. Spain, Portugal and many other countries benefited and so indirectly have all the people who holiday in Europe. I was recently in Madeira where tunnels connecting tiny coastal settlements have changed residents' lives and opened up the country to tourists. Let's become bigger than these petty economic quarrels and keep our country involved in progress and development.

We now take for granted the employment rights that the EU has brought. Because it has tried to balance a healthy free market with workers rights.

Here in the UK our rights are based on various EU directives. If we left the EU there is nothing to stop a future government from reducing entitlement - under the heading of "cutting red tape"

In the USA for example women have the right to just 12 weeks unpaid leave. In order to receive maternity leave, employees must work in a firm of 50 or more employees, maintain employment with the same business for 12 months and have accumulated at least 1,250 working hours over those 12 months.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_leave_in_the_United_States#Motherhood_penalty

Then there is discrimination in the workplace - on ground of marital status, sexuality, age, disability etc. Looks like the USA is a hotchpotch of legislation, varying from state to state with varying caveats depending on the state you live in

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_discrimination_law_in_the_United_States

Yes EU companies might go home and companies like Nissan, that have chosen to make cars here because we are in the EU might well relocate as well.

I think daphnedil has a point about relocation of industry etc. Of course, other EU countries would probably offer very favourable terms for their relocation if we exit.

I think the Exiters started their campaign years ago when Nigel Farage became a name in politics - the fact he repeats a lot of tosh does not matter as he sounds convincing and just repeats, repeats, repeats - bit like a nagging child! Maybe he thinks he will become Prime Minister if we do exit as he will be out of a job!
[obiewankanobie] why would the people wishing to stay not be thinking of Britain as a whole? I want to see all the young people have as many opportunities as they can and to do that I believe they need to look wider than this small island and have easy access to the rest of Europe at least. The Erasmus scheme for University students is a great opportunity for some students. Wider horizons for them. Workers in UK benefit from many EU rules which would not necessarily still apply after a Brexit - that has never been officially said and I realise it has not been stated that they would stop either but is that worth risking? Too much water under the bridge for us to easily extricate ourselves without massive damage.

Why is it that the Brexits get noticed more in the media
durhamjen could it be that the pro-EU people just don't seem to have 'got it together', are not presenting their case well and are just not getting through.
They are just not marketing their ideas and beliefs in a positive way.

The Clash?

Plenty of clashing going on on here

Remember the song 'should I stay or should I go?' Who sang that?

Going OT, I know, but:

And, if we stay in the EU I won't need a visa for Cuba (next year)

We've just come back from Cuba. No, you don't need a visa but you do need a 'visitor's pass'; don't forget to get one!

We don't really know what would happen if we leave the EU, but suspect we would manage ok, however we don't know what we will do if we continue with the EU either, it is a risk either way, but we will be able to make our own way in the world just as we always have done without the stranglehold of Brussels bureaucracy, it is looking like an overloaded sinking ship captained by Germany.

Petra the "price might be right" but then countries outside the EU have a right to slap a heavy tariff on imports from the UK, which cranks the price up to help their own economy thrive.

No, we don't make much. 78% of UK GDP is from service industries, of which the financial services industry, based in London, is the biggest. Service industries include hospitality, tourism, education, prostitution (yes, really!), etc.

Motor vehicles are actually one of our biggest non-service exports BUT most of the companies are not British owned. Companies such as Nissan have chosen the UK as a manufacturing base, because we have access to EU markets.

There's a real possibility that companies such as Nissan will relocate if the UK leaves the EU. There's also a possibility that financial services will move to Frankfurt. As Germany is the UK's second biggest export market, I can't honestly see them making our life easier for exporting. It's more likely that they would put up trade barriers and seek suppliers in cheaper areas on their doorstep to the East.

We don't really make anything anymore though do we? Margaret Thatcher saw to that. Whereas Germany ,France, Italy make their own cars, trains etc

obieone, How do you work that one out? I am most certainly thinking of the UK and its future.

In January 2016 47% of our exports went to the EU, which was down as a percentage on the 2015 average. The UK's non-EU exports are falling significantly in real terms. EU exports are generally stable and increased slightly (£0.1bn) in January. Worldwide markets are becoming increasingly unstable.

Our biggest export market is the US (£2.9bn), followed very closely by Germany (£2.5bn).

The UK can only 'make the price right' by becoming a sweatshop economy, which I don't think is what most people want.

I meant the bigger picture of the Britain picture.

But now I think about it, it occurs to me that in essence, some or lots of the people who want remain, are not thinking of Britain as a whole?

They could be thinking of Europe as a whole, or their own individual circumstances.