Female Genital Mutilation, now Breast Ironing young girls.

"What is it with sex with these people"
Repression.

Most of these mutilations, if the girl is school age are done in the summer holidays. I don't have to explain why.

Last year some time there was a discussion on LBC about genital mutilation of girls. I think it was James O'Brien. This is v. shocking (by my standards anyway):
A muslim man came on and said most muslim women had it done before marriage. Why? To prevent masturbation.
Even James was stopped in his tracks.

Remember reading about it at university. So it was in the public domain all those years ago and yet it hasn't been wiped out in the UK even after all this time.

I don't know why I'm being addressed as though I don't take the problem seriously - of course I do!

All I've said is that it isn't easy to eradicate ingrained cultural practices and it seems that it's difficult enough to even get one successful prosecution for FGM, never mind breast ironing. I don't know what the answer is, but whaat's in place now doesn't seem to be working.

Ana

I apologise if that's how my post came over. Of course I know you and everybody else who has taken the trouble to post is outraged by this.

I think it has hit a nerve with me today.

Off topic, I know, but did anyone follow the case a couple of weeks ago where a 'man' was sent to prison for enslaving his wife ( she was from Pakistan).
She escaped once and went to the police. They took her back to him.
The policeman said that he didn't know that slavery was a crime.
That says it all!!!! What bloody hope is there.

I am sick to the back teeth of 'cultural sensitivities',this is child abuse and nothing less. At the risk of sounding like a bigot ( and I am NOT) there has to be prosecutions and outing of the elders/mosques or whoever that are advocating this. Apart from the appalling cruelty involved, the simple fact is that anything like this is illegal in this country, if I did it to my daughter I would be prosecuted and rightly so. Religion does not give exemption to the rule of law in the UK and it is time we stood up to all these narrow minded old men (mainly) who seem to rule migrant communities. It is also very sad that we all feel that we have to make it clear that we are not racist/bigots/islamophobic/whatever before we feel free to comment on what is a child abuse issue. I do not care whether this is being done by Muslims, fundamental Christians, Jews or Hindus, it is cruel and illegal, end of.

It was the first time I'd heard of this practice on Sky News this morning, and I was shocked to the core. For God's sake, we are not allowed to smack our children in discipline without there being an uproar and yet this barbaric torture is allowed to go on unchecked. These are little girls, innocent children who have done nothing wrong. They are being mutilated to protect them from marauding men and boys - these, of course, suffer no punishment. Why not mutilate the men to stop them attacking the little girls?
I too am sick, sore and weary of hearing about 'cultural sensitivities'. I cannot believe that anyone would hesitate to condemn this practice on the grounds that it is culturally sensitive. It is mutilation, it is torture, it is child abuse. There can be no defence.

It's important that people from different cultures are aware that beating their children, "exorcising evil spirits", FGM, breast ironing etc., are all wrong and illegal in this country. I think education is the key and regular talks relating to these sorts of issues should be set up in schools.

There is no evidence that these abuses have been discovered but not pursued due to "cultural sensitivity". I'm not quite sure how it can be determined that breast ironing has occurred unless a child reports it - and I imagine that a child would not want to get a parent into trouble.

Only yesterday it was reported that a young white British mother had been found guilty of stamping to death her 21 month old baby who had, I believe, been on the at risk register virtually since birth. It wasn't "cultural sensitivity" that prevented this child - or thousands of other white British children - from being removed from families that are deemed to pose a potential risk to a child. Social services are under such pressure from an increasing case load and a decreasing staff team, and from constant media/public scrutiny and criticism - either for removing children from their families or for not removing them. There is also a huge shortage of foster parents and suitable children's homes.

In my opinion, using language like "these people", "barbarians", "uneducated people", etc. etc., does nothing whatever to help children at risk.

With respect Eloethan I for one will happily be seen to part company with your view by arguing exactly what 'does nothing at all to help children at risk' as you call it , is being stopped by those who refuse to accept there are words that describe exactly the barbarity of FGM and Breast Ironing procedures and the use of them .

I also think it is another tactic to divert from subject of the barbarity of FGM and Breast Ironing by stating other obvious dispicable and abhorrent incidents relating to child abuse. No child abuse is acceptable but to try and deminish the severity of one act of abuse by bringing another form of abuse into the equation is pointless .

There are genuine fears this is happening in the UK and an excellent organisation called CAME is working with the Metropolitan Police and Social Services departments to raise awareness.

If it hurts /harms the child mentally or physically, surely it's abuse, and that is well covered by present laws. I agree with Indinana there should be no excuse or exception - I'm not too keen on circumcision either!

POGS It has been implied several times on this thread that abuses of this nature have not been prosecuted because of "cultural sensitivity". What evidence is there that abuse of this sort of abuse has been reported but ignored? I did not diminish the seriousness of any form of abuse - I pointed out that there are thousands of children from all backgrounds - including white British - for whom intervention has come too late or not at all.

Well said Eloethan.
FGM is illegal in Britain, & it is also illegal to take a child abroad to do it. AFIK breast ironing isn't illegal. It should be, & until it is should be treated as child abuse. I don't think 'cultural sensitivity' is the problem - if that was the case FGM wouldn't be illegal - it is more to do with actually proving this has happened. I imagine that could be very difficult as it would require someone suspecting it was going to/has happened, & alerting the relevant authorities.

POGS, thank you for publicising this horrible issue which, I too, had only heard of for the first time recently. The practice of breast ironing, along with FGM, is barbaric and the west should never have allowed physical torture to be swept under the carpet in order to pander to cultural sensitivities. That other cultures are based on misogyny should be trumpeted and challenged lest we slip back into the dark ages. Women should be free to live their lives unhampered and to take part in the public as well as the private sphere.

Many of the practices which subjugate, exploit, degrade or torture women physically and psychologically are already illegal but the law has turned a blind eye to avoid being labelled racist. This should stop.

little fierce if it's so hard to prove, why are there 2 sessions a month being held at St Georges hospital in southwest London. This is run by a midwife called Denise Henry. There is also a specialist clinic at University Colledge Hospital.

I was watching "Hard Talk" a few days ago and there were 2 women on there being interviewed by Stephen Sakur, one had FGM "imposed" on her as a child of 7 (I think it was) the other "gladly" went through the experience in her 20's. Stephen made the point that the difference was in "informed" decision or no decision at all. I have never seen Stephen Sakur so quiet, he is normally an aggressive interviewer but I think he was so shocked. So was I by the one who thought it was OK & acceptable. I already knew there had been NO prosecutions in this country although the Law is there to protect. I have to ask "why" is this so ? Do we lack the motivation to follow through with the action? Do we now choose which laws we obey and which we dont?

Perhaps the many cases haven't been brought to court because the victims are afraid to complain. Someone has to bring a charge first and in the religious communities who carry it out there's always been a cover-up.
And fear of reprisals afterwards.

I too am sickened by this childabuse, torture, cruelty, misogyny, religious/cultural bigotry usually instigated by males and is tantamount to control freakery in the extreme. I also hate the double standards being practised in UK - I site the earlier reference to the mother who stamped her baby to death. And cultural sensitivities and/or political correctness are totally unacceptable in these cases, and many others.

I know I should listen to it but I really can't bring myself to hear the news item on BI which I hadn't heard of before this thread.

What is it with some men in religious communities? Apart from the well publicised prosecutions in Rotherham et al, there was an interesting discussion this morning on Radio 4 about the Pope's latest attempts to drag the Catholic Church into the 20th ( never mind 21st) century. the female reporter had unusually, visited the inner areas of The Vatican and she said it was like being in the Middle Ages,. No women visible, just hordes of old men who were described as very conservative, gliding about in their gowns of various hues. Women in Orthodox Jewish communities fare no better.
The one thing that all of these misogynistic religions have in common is that they all forbid/fear female education, presumably because an educated woman will question their ideas and will realise there is another way. I dont wish to make sweeping generalisations, but I have always been disturbed by the dominance of elderly males and the subordination and often mistreatment of women by these same men.

I only just heard about this last week. We've got to stop being so wimpish about cultural sensitivity and put a stop to it. This is Britain, not some backward third world country. Sadly though these barbaric practices are seeping into our society almost unnoticed and it's time we started to shout, loudly.
Well done Sky, I'll sign any petitions and have a look at Forward too.
I'm raging about this.

It's not just young girls who are victims of these vile people. Let's not forget that its women who perform FGM.
There are a tribe of Afghan 'men' called Pashtuns. Some, not all, hate women. They think we are "unclean & distaseful" because we menstruate.
They believe that " women are for children and boys are for pleasure"
Although their Muslim religion forbids homosexuality, it's ok because they do not 'love' the boys.
They have a name for this practice, it's called, batcha bazi .

Sadly as a species, we have allowed the minority section (heterosexual males) to control the minds and bodies of the rest of the species through fear, intimidation and male heterosexual irientated religions.
until the remaining sections of the species combine to overcome this dominance which they probably never will do through either their non aggressive demeanour or their need to be subservient to find a mate, these grim and abhorrent practices will continue.
I think in the UK we should run TV advertisements highlighting these practices and shame the monsters that do them. Stop pussyfooting around!

I like your suggestion joelsnan TV adverts. If that doesn't get the word out, nothing will.
But sadly, we will still have the apolosists and victim blamers.

Yes, I bet adverts like that would not be allowed, for a variety of reasons, which is a pity because the ads already in existence about child abuse and neglect in general are very powerful.