EU referendum and older voters

Was just thinking exactly the same, ana, especially when MPs from both main parties support both sides of the discussion.

Actually, I think saying one's shocked like that is just a way of being disapproving.

I'm amazed that anyone would be shocked at the news that other people may actually have a different opinion to them...

Thank you for your response, ddill. You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. One doesn't have to be very old to understand that things have improved over the last few generations for people all over the world, not just in Europe. And, given that, it is not illogical to wonder how one would be able to distinguish what were EU-driven improvements and what weren't.

Just as you see leaving the EU as a huge risk, I see staying in it without large reforms as a huge risk. Both are valid viewpoints.

Our children are all thirty something, are intelligent, well read and informed, and have good jobs, two are voting OUT and one voting IN.
I can't imagine them being shocked that some people online want to vote OUT though.

Jalima, I have two children, aged 18 and 23. I know they will both vote to stay in. When I've discussed it with them, they've been amazed that anybody would vote to leave, because they don't know anybody who will. We've discussed why some people might find leaving attractive. Most of the people I know personally will also vote to remain. My children were shocked when I told them that I communicated with people online who want to leave. It made them more determined than ever to vote and to make sure all their friends do. I guess it just depends who you happen to know. All national polls have shown that younger people will tend to vote to remain and that the tendency to vote leave rises with age.

thatbags, That wasn't my point! Cherry claimed that she was voting 'out' because Gordon Brown sold our gold and our education and health services were ruined. I can't see how the EU has caused any of those.

In addition, I can't see how being old enough to be able to compare life before and during membership of the EU is relevant, if as YOU now claim, the EU hasn't made any difference.

There is no logic in any of those arguments and I'm still to see ANY well-argued reason to leave.

It seems like jumping off a cliff, because it's not very pleasant being in a thunderstorm.

I watched Sky News today and Michael Hesseltine was being interviewed by Murnaghan talking up the case for 'In' and I thought, um, good points. He was followed later by Gerard Lyons , Boris Johnsons economic advisor in his role as Mayor of London talking up the case for ' OUT' and I thought, um, good points.

ddill, life may well be better now in the UK than it was before the EU but that is true of many countries, including many that aren't even in Europe, never mind members of the EU. So the claim that it's the EU that has made the difference doesn't stand. It may well have made some difference but clearly other things, entirely unconnected with the EU, have too.

djen
What you posted about Martin Lewis is interesting.

There is a move to suggest that anyone who votes out is a "Kipper" - but I think there are many who wish to leave who are thinking more carefully and critically.

It has to be said that the information being peddled by both sides is not clear - each of their statements is open to different interpretations depending on which pundit you listen to.

I would imagine that most older people are voting with their children and grandchildren's interests in mind, I certainly am, which is why I will be voting OUT.
I imagine that those IN voters will be feeling the same.

I think I posted on another thread that I had asked younger people with whom I had come into contact what their views were - and their answers surprised me. They were mainly in the 30-50 age group as I don't know many teenagers and a high proportion of them were for Brexit. Most were not relatives btw.

I do think that we need to look at the long-term but knowing what the future holds whichever way the vote goes is impossible to know whatever pundits predict, not just as far as the EU goes but globally, which will have far more influence on our futures in fact.

That's not what I assumed, cherrytree. My question to you was why you think the UK's own politicians wouldn't ruin education and health. They were the ones who ruined them with absolutely no help from the EU. Gordon Brown didn't need prompting from the EU to sell the UK's gold either. I'm baffled by the logic.

What was better about life in the UK before it became an EU member? You're obviously older than I am, because I don't remember it being better.

Totally agree with Cerrytree and thatbags re the generation question/debate.

inability

Good question, cherrytree. I've been wondering the same myself about that assumption that out voters don't care about their grandchildren's future as Europeans (but not necessarily in an EU country) and global citizens. That assumption shows a remarkable disability to imagine there being another valid point of view, of a tendency to see all issues in plain black and white, right or wrong, with no subtlety. All well, that's how it goes with some people.

Oops too many 'mores'

Why do you assume that the people who want to stay in the EU are putting their grandchildren's future first and the people who want to leave are putting themselves first and not the their GC ??

If its true that its the older people that want to leave , could it not be that they have experienced both ways and therefore more are actually more qualified to make a choice?

Excellent post, Granddaughter. You should put it on all the other threads, too.

Cherrytree,

Are you proposing abolishing politicians, because it's our own MPs who sold our gold and 'ruined' education and the NHS?

I'm not sure what you mean about 'bringing up our children', but I'm not aware of any EU interference.

So how would leaving the EU be better?

Granddaughter,

I wish GN had a 'hug' emoticon, because I'd give you one.

There are so many threads on the same subject I am getting bewildered which to post on.

As an older person I ask myself should I really gamble with my grandchildren's future and job prospect, also should I' consider the risks of restriction of movement within the eu and effect of imposing closed borders in Europe upon them? Leaving the EU would not happen immediately, but it would have an affect on job prospects and the lack of investment because of insecurity lcould be really disastrous.

No I do not feel that I do have the right right to take such a gamble with younger peoples future at my time of life. I really do worry how long it would take for the UK to get back to normality if we opt out, and possibility of it resulting in the loss of 1,000's of jobs. Also do I want my holidays on the continent to be restricted by border controls and customs, no I don't.? Nor do I believe leaving the EU is all about immigrants. The U.K has 2 million of its own citizens living in various parts of Europe,, what happens to them,? There are far to many barriers and dangers in the path of an easy UK transition, if we were to opt out as well as the gamble with future generations job prospects along with the restriction on their freedom of movement within the EU.

Therefore I shall vote for status quo and staying in. I desire a safer Eurupe and not any small minded Nationalism that brought about WW1 & WW2.

I also fear for the UK also if that the English know best attitude so often heard in these columns, will also create such a divide that we would soon see the start of the break up of the UK. I am not prepared to gamble with that nor with younger generations future, for the sake of such vague promises from the Out brigade, just because they are not prepared to allow Britain to play a leading role in the future of the eu.

The cost of being in the EU is around 1% in the £ . With millions coming back to support our LEP's and Uni research along with economic development programmes and resources to support Active AGEING and reducing loneliness.

How can we take such stupid risks at our time of life on the jBritish economy bouncing back very quickly, most experts say it will take getting on for two decades. What happens to jobs in the meantime?

We need to be very positive and play a leading role in Eurupe rather than be outsiders struggling to create new markets and trade to bring back the jobs and industries we lost in the meantime by pulling out of the eu.

I believe my 'gut feeling' or 'instinct' is better than all the hype/propaganda.
Its what has got me through life thus far.
These are the same politicians that have told us in the past how to live our lives. How to bring up our children. Ruined our education system and NHS. Sold our gold at an all time low.
I am talking about politicians not any party in particular.
So for me its my 'gut instinct' as its better than trying to sort out the wood from the chaff.

But surely, regardless of age, any decision we make will be made on the basis of what is good for society as a whole, which includes everyone from birth to death. What is best for young people, bringing them economic success and the chance to live fulfilled lives must surely be good for older people as well. Few if any grandparent would vote for something that is disadvantageous to their children and grand children.

The problem is younger people rail at the old in the way, Tricia's daughter did, but they are the group least like to vote. They cannot have it both ways.

However, after saying all that, all the arguments about out/in are based on what is in the Britain's best interests and this is subjective, trying to forecast the way the country will develop in the future.

I and all my family are inners, but I can understand why some people think differently.

Monica / Tricia89 you are perfectly correct we don't know how long we have on this earth 10, 20, or even 30 years or more. We do however know that it is today's younger generation needing that employment stability that will face the greatest problems if the older people make the wrong decision mainly because of nt heir prejudices.
I for one will not take a gamble with young people's future employment opportunities, now I am retired . I do not have that right, so I shall stay with the status quo which I believe is far more stable for my grandchildren's and others future. My vote is there for staying in. Tricia I can understand your views but please do think about future generations

Yes but.... Given the way life expectancy is rising, someone in their 60s and even 70s may have 30 years of life ahead of them. That is plenty of time to face the consequences of the decision of the referendum.