Citizen's, or Basic Income

I know very little about this but having a a sure income all the time would remove a lot of worry for people and I assume would be taken into account with any further benefits awarded in times of no work etc. Does this then eventually form part of the State pension?

Germany certainly does. The equivalent of unemployment benefit increases with age and is related to prior income/contributions. When I was unemployed a few years ago, I calculated that I would have received 67% of my last income for approximately three years, which was a heck of a lot more than the £70pw I did receive. I can't remember the exact formula, but the length of time benefit is received is time-limited, but related to age.

Like many others of my age, I've been trying to work out how much pension I will receive and have a full list of all my NI contributions and have paid nearly £100,000 over the years, so the help I received when it was needed was an insult.

There certainly seems to be more and more interest in this Jen and dd and it is good to see countries and areas of countries trialling it. The 'deserving' and 'undeserving' labels are just another deflection from governments being unable to square a circle. I look forward to seeing some of the outcomes of these trials.

Do some countries increase their equivalent to JSA with age dd? That's interesting.

Universal Basic Income could also cost the state less too.

We are stuck with the idea of the 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor, which is why the country spends a fortune on the Work Capability Assessment, Work Programme and means-testing. This could be saved if the distinction between JSA and ESA were abolished and everybody who has paid a minimum number of years of NI (5?) were to be paid the ESA rate when unemployed. The amount paid and duration could increase with age, as it does in some other countries.

www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/the-key-criticisms-of-basic-income-and-how-to-overcome-them/

This links together just about every thread on politics.

'Large numbers of worker do not know, from one day – or even hour – to the next if and when they will next be working. Yet we still have an anachronistic benefit system based on the principle that any fit adult (and, under the current regime, many who are less than fit) must either be ‘in work’ or ‘seeking work’. The old Beveridgean welfare state model is, in short, bust. What is left of the old welfare safety net is fundamentally incompatible with a globalised just-in-time labour market in which workers are increasingly paid by the task.

The victims of these incompatibilities are among the most vulnerable in our society – forced to take any work that is going but often unable to claim benefit when none is available. They are caught between the rock of harsh sanctions regimes and the hard place of capricious and unreliable employers, often with no dependable source of income whatsoever. And the numbers of these people missed by the safety net keep growing. The use of food banks has increased more than forty-fold since 2008, the estimated number of rough sleepers has risen by 55% since 2010 and the number of children in poverty rose from 3.7 million in 2014-2015 to 3.9 million a year later – an increase of 200,000 in just one year. Something is clearly terribly wrong and the increasingly urgent question is how to fix it.'

Universal basic income could fix it if there was the will.

Universal basic income is not a magic solution, but it could help millions

"Basic income is designed to give people more control over their lives. It is not just the cash sum that is important but the security and certainty provided; a more predictable platform on which to make life choices"

There's a new political party set up in Germany with the aim to get UBI.

basicincome.org/news/2016/10/germany-single-issue-political-party-founded-promote-ubi/

It will be interesting to see how well it does.

Even the IMF is saying it's a good idea.

basicincome.org/news/2016/09/13022/

The RSA supports the idea of a universal basic income.

www.thersa.org/discover/publications-and-articles/matthew-taylor-blog/2016/09/why-policy-fails-and-how-it-might-succeed/

Just an update for those interested in this. Later today, MPs will debate the Universal Basic Income
- here's an excellent resource package of arguments for and against the policy

The TUC is going to discuss and vote on basic income at its meeting this month.

basicincome.org/news/2016/08/uk-trades-union-congress-vote-ubi-motion/

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/darian-meacham/job-automation-threatens-peoples-livelihoods-can-universal-basic-income-save-day

I think this was Shumacher's message in the sixties. Still not going to happen.

www.socialistproject.org/issues/august-2016/universal-basic-income-great-escape/

An interesting link, with lots of other links in it.

@Luckylegs

Did you not claim Family Allowance for your own children? It seems a bit mean to deny current parents a benefit you almost certainly received. If you care so much about working families, I don't understand why you want to take money away from them.

It's called Child Benefit now, by the way, and anybody with an income over £50,000 can't claim it. Child Tax Credit is being restricted to two children from April 2017.

PS. Only 15% of families have three or more dependent children. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/bulletins/familiesandhouseholds/2015-11-05#dependent-children

Where is this money to come from? Is it from the people already working and struggling with work and paying for child care? Is it taking it from somewhere else, the National Health or Defence? I think family allowance should go. You cannot base Family Allowance on the size of family you want. I stopped at two children, would have liked more but we couldn't afford them. Perhaps the winter fuel allowance too! The people working are finding it hard, both parents working. This weekend we heard that cataract operations are not to be funded and there is a question over hip replacements.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/08/06/jeremy-corbyn-looking-at-universal-basic-income-says-house-price-fall-could-help-tackle-housing-crisis_n_11365424.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics

Corbyn's latest on basic income. Again, it's linked to the housing crisis.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/06/13/peoples-quantitative-easing-is-the-answer-to-the-housing-crisis/

A solution for basic income and the housing crisis.

Sorry Jen I think I may have confused you. I usually end up confusing someone - often me!

I can use the first link - not the second. I meant I could not set up a link

Considering this is such a new concept to many I am really pleased to see 62%. I am not surprised many think people will not work but we have to start thinking about the disappearance of jobs with automation and exactly what "work" is.

62% in the UK. That surprised me. Although 43% said that their biggest worry was that people would stop working, only 4% said that they would.

That's easier, I hope. It worked for me then.

www.basicincome.org/news/2016/05/europe-eu-poll-basic-income-support/

I couldn't sort a link out for that Jen. I was surprised and pleased to see it was as high as that.

us11.campaign-archive2.com/?u=1ee7284968c494ec88c2f40c9&id=8e559f9f17&e=42f35f1694

64% of Europeans in favour of a basic income. Lots more links on here.

Housing is probably the biggest challenge we face where poverty, low or even middle level incomes are concerned. We should find a solution that whatever else we do. Sadly it is not a priority for some.

The idea of a basic income is, on the face of it, an attractive one.

However, I'm not convinced it would solve the problem of the increasingly wide gap between the super rich and everybody else.

An opinion piece in the I recently voiced some of the reservations I have about basic income.

inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/want-solve-housing-crisis-universal-basic-income-isnt-answer/

I think his final comments are interesting: "Housing is a great driver of inequality. And yet the most radical welfare reform in a century would do little to resolve it. If you like your solutions bitesized, a better one would be to massively subsidise social housing."