Citizen's, or Basic Income

us11.campaign-archive2.com/?u=1ee7284968c494ec88c2f40c9&id=8e559f9f17&e=42f35f1694

64% of Europeans in favour of a basic income. Lots more links on here.

I couldn't sort a link out for that Jen. I was surprised and pleased to see it was as high as that.

www.basicincome.org/news/2016/05/europe-eu-poll-basic-income-support/

That's easier, I hope. It worked for me then.

62% in the UK. That surprised me. Although 43% said that their biggest worry was that people would stop working, only 4% said that they would.

Sorry Jen I think I may have confused you. I usually end up confusing someone - often me!

I can use the first link - not the second. I meant I could not set up a link

Considering this is such a new concept to many I am really pleased to see 62%. I am not surprised many think people will not work but we have to start thinking about the disappearance of jobs with automation and exactly what "work" is.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/06/13/peoples-quantitative-easing-is-the-answer-to-the-housing-crisis/

A solution for basic income and the housing crisis.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/08/06/jeremy-corbyn-looking-at-universal-basic-income-says-house-price-fall-could-help-tackle-housing-crisis_n_11365424.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics

Corbyn's latest on basic income. Again, it's linked to the housing crisis.

Where is this money to come from? Is it from the people already working and struggling with work and paying for child care? Is it taking it from somewhere else, the National Health or Defence? I think family allowance should go. You cannot base Family Allowance on the size of family you want. I stopped at two children, would have liked more but we couldn't afford them. Perhaps the winter fuel allowance too! The people working are finding it hard, both parents working. This weekend we heard that cataract operations are not to be funded and there is a question over hip replacements.

@Luckylegs

Did you not claim Family Allowance for your own children? It seems a bit mean to deny current parents a benefit you almost certainly received. If you care so much about working families, I don't understand why you want to take money away from them.

It's called Child Benefit now, by the way, and anybody with an income over £50,000 can't claim it. Child Tax Credit is being restricted to two children from April 2017.

PS. Only 15% of families have three or more dependent children. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/bulletins/familiesandhouseholds/2015-11-05#dependent-children

www.socialistproject.org/issues/august-2016/universal-basic-income-great-escape/

An interesting link, with lots of other links in it.

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/darian-meacham/job-automation-threatens-peoples-livelihoods-can-universal-basic-income-save-day

I think this was Shumacher's message in the sixties. Still not going to happen.

The TUC is going to discuss and vote on basic income at its meeting this month.

basicincome.org/news/2016/08/uk-trades-union-congress-vote-ubi-motion/

Just an update for those interested in this. Later today, MPs will debate the Universal Basic Income
- here's an excellent resource package of arguments for and against the policy

The RSA supports the idea of a universal basic income.

www.thersa.org/discover/publications-and-articles/matthew-taylor-blog/2016/09/why-policy-fails-and-how-it-might-succeed/

Even the IMF is saying it's a good idea.

basicincome.org/news/2016/09/13022/

There's a new political party set up in Germany with the aim to get UBI.

basicincome.org/news/2016/10/germany-single-issue-political-party-founded-promote-ubi/

It will be interesting to see how well it does.

Universal basic income is not a magic solution, but it could help millions

"Basic income is designed to give people more control over their lives. It is not just the cash sum that is important but the security and certainty provided; a more predictable platform on which to make life choices"

www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/the-key-criticisms-of-basic-income-and-how-to-overcome-them/

This links together just about every thread on politics.

'Large numbers of worker do not know, from one day – or even hour – to the next if and when they will next be working. Yet we still have an anachronistic benefit system based on the principle that any fit adult (and, under the current regime, many who are less than fit) must either be ‘in work’ or ‘seeking work’. The old Beveridgean welfare state model is, in short, bust. What is left of the old welfare safety net is fundamentally incompatible with a globalised just-in-time labour market in which workers are increasingly paid by the task.

The victims of these incompatibilities are among the most vulnerable in our society – forced to take any work that is going but often unable to claim benefit when none is available. They are caught between the rock of harsh sanctions regimes and the hard place of capricious and unreliable employers, often with no dependable source of income whatsoever. And the numbers of these people missed by the safety net keep growing. The use of food banks has increased more than forty-fold since 2008, the estimated number of rough sleepers has risen by 55% since 2010 and the number of children in poverty rose from 3.7 million in 2014-2015 to 3.9 million a year later – an increase of 200,000 in just one year. Something is clearly terribly wrong and the increasingly urgent question is how to fix it.'

Universal basic income could fix it if there was the will.

Universal Basic Income could also cost the state less too.

We are stuck with the idea of the 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor, which is why the country spends a fortune on the Work Capability Assessment, Work Programme and means-testing. This could be saved if the distinction between JSA and ESA were abolished and everybody who has paid a minimum number of years of NI (5?) were to be paid the ESA rate when unemployed. The amount paid and duration could increase with age, as it does in some other countries.

There certainly seems to be more and more interest in this Jen and dd and it is good to see countries and areas of countries trialling it. The 'deserving' and 'undeserving' labels are just another deflection from governments being unable to square a circle. I look forward to seeing some of the outcomes of these trials.

Do some countries increase their equivalent to JSA with age dd? That's interesting.

Germany certainly does. The equivalent of unemployment benefit increases with age and is related to prior income/contributions. When I was unemployed a few years ago, I calculated that I would have received 67% of my last income for approximately three years, which was a heck of a lot more than the £70pw I did receive. I can't remember the exact formula, but the length of time benefit is received is time-limited, but related to age.

Like many others of my age, I've been trying to work out how much pension I will receive and have a full list of all my NI contributions and have paid nearly £100,000 over the years, so the help I received when it was needed was an insult.

I know very little about this but having a a sure income all the time would remove a lot of worry for people and I assume would be taken into account with any further benefits awarded in times of no work etc. Does this then eventually form part of the State pension?

I don't think there are any definite plans, Welshwife. However, some of the arguments for a basic income have pointed out that both child benefit and the state pension are a sort of basic income, so I guess this would be something for the intervening years.

I agree with this in principle. But I think there needs to be a stronger link with NI contributions to be workable. I also think we need to encourage a system where there is quality work for all. So everyone would pay NI or some sort of contribution, perhaps on a sliding scale, and this would be used to guarantee some sort of basic income to all. This would reduce the undeserving v deserving poor and the perception of dependency on the state.

Work also needs to be seen as something worth doing financially; at the moment the work culture seems to be one of low pay, insecurity, top ups with credits and poor quality contracts.

Work needs to pay, and at the moment, it doesn't for many.