Ken Livingstone

Yes but it's in the Telegraph. Does that count, as it's owned by tax cheats.

Didn't realise it was from the torygraph Jen, explains much

Thank you very much for the link to the Open Democracy article. I thought it provided a very detailed examination of the issues surrounding the current accusations of anti-semitism

Why should it be accepted that any politician or public figure who criticises Israel in relation to its treatment of the Palestinians should be accused of anti-semitism?

Jonathan Freedland - who likes to present himself as a person of reason, apparently thought it was quite in order to describe Finkelstein - a strong critic of Israeli policies - (who lost all his family, apart from his parents, in the Holocaust) as "closer to the people who created the Holocaust than to those who suffered it."

Ken Livingstone has always been a person who "opens mouth before engaging brain". I don't believe he makes these sorts of comments because he is a racist, an attention seeker or a deliberate "trouble maker" - I think he genuinely feels strongly about some issues. At least he is not one of those politicians - and there are many of them in all parties - who dare not give an honest answer/expresss an honest opinion on any subject at all for fear of being frozen out by their colleagues or losing favour with the electorate. I think KL's contribution in this instance has been extremely muddled and unhelpful. However, even if someone's mental faculties are not what they were (and I don't know if that's true or not in the case of KL), I think to suggest a person be "put out to grass", is rather ageist. Some of us may face declining mental capacity as we get older and I wouldn't like to be referred to in such a dismissive way.

In my opinion a racist remark is one that stereotypes and/or negatively judges a person's physical, intellectual and moral characteristics/abilities, on the basis of their ethnic origins, and racist policies are ones that deny a particular group the same rights and respect as everyone else. I would be interested to know how many people have heard anti-semitic remarks expressed by anyone in the course of their ordinary day-to-day conversations and exchanges. I can't think of a single instance when I have heard remarks of this nature made about Jewish people. I have heard many such remarks made about various other minority groups, including Asians (Muslims in particular), gypsies, East Europeans and people of African or Afro-Caribbean origin. The history of the genocide of Native Australians and Americans receives very little attention, nor does the subject of the obliteration of their culture, and they continue to be characterised as "a problem". There is very little outcry about these examples of ongoing racism.

There seems to be a very small number of highly educated people involved in politics and academia whose views can probably rightly be described as blatantly anti-semitic. The Oxford University Conservative Association was suspended when it was reported that some members had joined in an anti-semitic song that referred to Jewish people as "kikes" and which made joking references to the Third Reich and the Holocaust. A more general example of racism occurred when it was suspended for setting up a competition to find the most racist joke. Even Prince Harry was strongly criticised for using the terms "raghead" and "Paki". Minority parties like the NF, the BNP and the EDF, have, I believe, a strongly racist agenda which has in the past been anti-semitic but which at the moment is more focused on attacking Muslims.

Suppose the Archbishop of Canterbury wrote a piece attacking Israel's treatment of the Palestinians' and it was published by the Daily Telegraph? Would you dismiss that in the same way as you dismiss the Chief Rabbi's article, ab and dj, or do you treat a Jewish religious leader differently?

Or are all articles in the DT tainted, whatever the views expressed?

I didn't hear the interview so have no idea how Feltz put her question , was she critical of Naz ? did she make any comment on the cartoon Naz put on Facebook -before she was an MP. Being a Jew was Feltz discussing the allegations fairly ?

.grumppa, if ANY religious leader condemned the treatment of Palestine by Israel they would be speaking the truth. The chief rabbi condemned thousands of people by comments of a few.

I am fed up of Israel being treated as a sacred cow, they have now taken more land off Palestine why should they be defended for-breaking international law?

Have a l look at this which was the cartoon which placed Israel in the middle of America.
IMO this is a legitimate comment about the Israeli ideas of sending Palestinians to live in other Arab countries. It is a clever statement that needs thoughtful reading.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/05/03/this-revelation-could-throw-the-whole-anti-semitism-row-into-reverse/

Have a look at Zak Goldsmith's mayoral campaign and then decide who is the real racist. It is beyond despicable.

I am deeply worried about the way people who have campaigned all their lives against racism are now being stigmatised and condemned as anti-semetic because they have spoken out about the abuse of Palestinians. It is an orchestrated campaign to bring the left of the Labour party into disrepute. How many people will read more about this and realise that KL was historically right if his terminology was inaccurate? The anti-semetic allegation will remain in the mind of the public, not the details of the remarks.

Nelliemoser, thank you so much , I have only seen the sketch not what said beneath.

I agree with Naz , she said no different to what Israel said.

The chairman of Jewish refugees has asked Cameron to allow child refugees into this country, good for him.

Fully agree Trisha

I wasn't arguing about Israel being treated as a sacred cow, ab; I was questioning your apparent dismissal of what the Chief Rabbi wrote just because it was in the DT.

If you don't agree with what he said, that's fine by me; I thought it was a pretty unhelpful contribution to the damage. But you appeared to condemn it out of hand because of where it appeared.

Yes but it's in the Telegraph. Does that count, as it's owned by tax cheats ( DJ)
and
didn't realise it was from the torygraph Jen, explains much (*ab*)

Grumppa I think you have your answer.

No different to other posters dismissing the Guardian grumppa , not sure what you mean by cindemjng it out if hand, if you mean I object strongly to the chief rabbi referring to the Labour Party as he did , yes I dismiss it because it is a lie, there are over 400,000 people in the Labour Party , I being just one, he is judging me with the comments allegedly said by a few.

If this is fair I can judge all members of the Tory party as Coke sniffers because
Osbourn sniffed Coke ?

All Tory party members supported apartheid in S A because Csneron did?

As an active member of the Labour Party for many years I have always fought against racism

I am so angry with the allegations , I fought so hard against racism I was invited to take tea with Desmond Tutu when he came to Wales , I detest all forms of racism and I know Corbyn is not a racist, and what an odd party we are to have a Jewish leader untill eight months ago

I fear the way this is going,

Don't let the b........ds get you down annie you know what is right.

Why do you think he is judging you?

Oh! Before anyo ne takes offence -I absolutely don't mean anybody on here I meant those politicians trying to stitch up Corbyn etc.

I agree that the image has been burst though - big time

How many would people think there have to be to say there is a problem with anti-semetism?

Because obieone, the Labour Party is being accused of being racist and I am part of the Labour Party . My g grandfather - a baptist minister - supported Keir Hardie in the birth of the Labour Party, I have journals written at that time, nothing has changed from Keir Hardie's principles to Corbyn's principles. The fight for the poor, the rights of workers etc, defence of all people who are suppressed - no mention of race or skin colour or faith

You are not the Labour Party by yourself. You are but one member of the Labour Party.
As you say, one person cannot be judged by the actions of another.

I do think though that the Labour Party has problems with anti-semetism.

I dont think that you can decide that the chief rabbi was lying. You dont know enough Labour Party members for that.

obeione if you think the Labour Party has problems with anti-semitism please give examples of this.
I think there is a problem with people trying to stitch up left wing Labour party members by accusing them of anti-semitism. KL is a great example. He has been extensively criticised for his remarks (made off the cuff in an unscripted interview) the facts of which have been confirmed by very prominent Jewish intellectuals, although KL did get the terminology wrong.

In my last post damage should have been debate.

I agree it's no different from other posters dismissing The Guardian, ab, but two blacks don't make a white; and the Chief Rabbi isn't exactly a paid hack of the Barclay Brothers.

And I don't think anyone is accusing the Labour Party as an entity, or all its individual members, of being racist or anti-semitic. What has been needed from the leadership is a more considered response than "we can't be racist or anti-semitic because we're the Labour Party," or something along those lines: a response that deals with the now widespread accusation that the perceived anti-semitism is tied in with anti-imperialism and an outdated left-wing agenda.

The Labour Party appear to have suspended a number of its members. I obviously dont have all the details of those, but I cant see that the Labour Party of which Jeremy Corbyn is head, would have done that lightly or without evidence - trisher-.

Then the chief rabbi should had referred to some members if the Labour Party not the Labour Party .

And obeine, I said in an earlier post I am but one, no need for your reminder I am not