Ken Livingstone

Tbh, not interested in either Kaufman and his family history, or Jimmy Carter.
My post was referring to POGs , 'you couldn't make it up' comment, which I entirely agree with.
All the deflecting going on is amusing.

Are you saying that he is anti-semetic pogs?

Yes, quite. Labour people are as concerned, or more concerned, about anti-semitism within their Party, as any right-wing owned media. And so they should be. I have read at least two articles in so-called right-wing newspapers on the subject which were written by Labour Party members.

granjura, as you asked me personally .

I find comments such 'this is all manufactured ' , 'can't help feeling sorry for him' , and the belief ' all he can be accused of is tactlessness', ' a ranting old labourite with no power ', ' what should Livingstone apologise for', comments that are of the opinion Livingstone has 'said nothing wrong'.

Another thing. This did not all kick off with Lord Levi as has been said. The story re Anti Semetic behaviour in the Labour Party started over the Oxford Student Union allegations of Anti Semetic behaviour by guess who?, Labour Party members themselves not the right wing press, not the Tories , it has been all the way a predominantly Labour on Labour issue and has festered ever since. More and more 'stories' and 'suspensions' of Labour Party members have followed We have been talking about this issue on Gransnet from the middle of March !

what!!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/29/jeremy-corbyn-interview-ken-livingstone-it-is-not-a-happy-day

sorry
[http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/29/jeremy-corbyn-interview-ken-livingstone-it-is-not-a-happy-day]]

You couldn't make it up POGS

[[http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/29/jeremy-corbyn-interview-ken-livingstone-it-is-not-a-happy-day]
Probably been linked previously, so apologies if it has.

Livingstone is a self-serving egotist and Jeremy Corbyn was ill advised to set such store by his views.

But this topic we are discussing has very much to do with what President Carter said Rosesarered

What a pity roses- as Gerald Kaufman's video of his speech in the House of Commons is a real eye opener to his family history and his vast knowledge on Israel and Palestine, and could really help anyone to see he couldn't possibly be called antisemite.

My post had nothing to do with a link to youtube ( I rarely read given links in the forum.)

POGS (quote):

So Livingstone has said nothing wrong,

who on earth said this here, please? What he said was wrong, stupid and objectionable in the extreme.

What Kaufman says in the video, particularly at 1.40 - is absolutely and totally spot on. I cannot understand in any shape, way or form, how a people that suffered so terribly would turn out to believe that it gave them the God given right to make another people suffer so- and that the rest of the world would stand by, our of guilt for what happened in the Holocaust. That is in no way anti-Semetic, and someone with a family history like Kaufman's has the right and duty to stand up and say so.

Rosesarered, as you feel so strongly about this discussion do you believe Jimmy Carter was lying?

So Kaufman is to be thrown out of the Labour Party

What a strange world, .jimmy Carter Nobel prize awarded is anti anti Semitic , a racist

Then I hope they also hold the same stand for all racists. There is no difference between a person who speaks out against Jews and those who speak out against Muslims,

All you ,list are .blairites POGS ,

My exact thought POGS 'you couldn't make it up' .... Shows how people are willing to delude themselves.

President Carter on Apartheid in Gaza:

youtu.be/uvtC_qzHVM4

Pure irony.

So Livingstone has said nothing wrong, it is a smear campaign by the right wing press, the Tories and Labour MP's and the Party., he has never said anything untoward .

John Mann who is the Chair of The All Party Parliamentary Group Against Anti Semitism is now the demon in this sorry saga.

You couldn't make it up.

It amazes me how easy some simply don't even believe the words of those in the Labour Party who have been very vocal over the last few ' weeks ' . If John Mann is talking rubbish and smearing the Labour Party then no doubt there will be the same howls against other Labour MP's such as Louise Ellman, Wes Streeting, Chris Bryant, Luciana Berger, Frank Field, Ana Turley, Lucy Powell, Tom Watson, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper , the list goes on and on .

Hell on another thread it was noted even John McDonnel in March 2016 called for a permanent ban from the Labour Party for Anti Semetic behaviour, even if they claim to have changed their opinions. Is he now a right wing, smear mongerer ?

labourlist.org/2016/03/mcdonnell-demands-life-bans-for-any-party-member-with-anti-semitic-views/
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/03/john-mcdonnell-labour-listen-antisemitism-claims

At the end of 2015:
Jews 6.1million
Arabs 1.7 million
Others 350,000, including some African refugees.
The Arabs have a quite significant representation in the Knesset.

Tricia, if Mann is to be believed any Jew who criticises Israel is anti Semitic, I am now fed up of Israel being put forward as a sacred cow. Can't recall who was quoted sorry but heard today - Israel is for Jews only and no other race

Annie - plenty of Jews disapprove of the Israeli govt's actions against the Palestinians. Whether that can be called anti-semitic I'm not sure.
What's unusual about Kaufman is that he's so open about it in the UK Parliament. In Israel there's lots of splits, not just against the govt. (leftwing v right) but secular V religious, Ashkenaz v. Sephard, etc.
Are they anti-semitic to criticise those of their own race?

Key statement at 1.40

I've met Gerald Kaufman many a time, and have great respect for him.

This speech in 2009 is moving and shows clearly why anti-semetism and anti-zionism are totally different:

youtu.be/qMGuYjt6CP8

Can a Jew be anti Semitic ?

Kaufman whose grandmother was shot dead by Nazi soldiers is on record for stating-

My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering grandmothers in Palestine

Isn't he also a tax dodger?