A victory for the little people

The problem is that if the UK leaves the EU, it will try to negotiate its own TTIP. Our government is strongly in favour if it, but wouldn't have the French to say 'non'. So much for gaining sovereignty and freedom to negotiate huh!

True daph but we can hope.

We can hope people see sense and vote REMAIN. Cameron thinks TTIP is a brilliant idea and will go ahead with it. We'd be swapping the EU for US corporations. I know which I prefer.

Does he still think it's a brilliant idea after this?

Not sure - but the Brexiters are very keen on TTIP.
So they say "let's take sovereignty away from the little people, as well as their human rights"
But moan like mad over imagined reduction of sovereignty to their powers. Very muddled thinking.

I couldn't see the link so have put it here Sorry if this is repeating it.

Cameron is one of the main enthusiasts of TTIP, as are Liam Fox and Michael Gove (both BREXITers). This is the 'alternative' trading agreement they see to the EU. Don't say you haven't been warned!

Exactly, ww. At least the 'little people' do vote for their MEPs, but TTIP is about handing over power from elected governments to big corporations without all the safeguards of health and safety, environmental and working directive laws, etc.

So ... both love and dislike of TTIP cross the in/out divide (?) but if we stay in the final say will be for all the countries or rather each of the countries i.e., one out all out, but if we come out it is likely that a Conservative government would go ahead with a UK TTIP.

Can someone tell me if I have got this right and also how the LP would view TTIP.

Corbyn is against TTIP. From what I've picked, I believe you're right about the rest.

My understanding is that any trade agreement would have to take current regulations into account. However, if a country or trading bloc, such as the EU, wants to introduce tighter regulations, it would then have to compensate any big corp holding a contract.

The EU is unlikely to loosen regulations, but BREXITers, such as Gove, have already stated that he wants to abolish some 'red tape' such as health and safety and working time laws, which would fit in very nicely with American corporations bidding for contracts, because American legislation is generally more lax than EU regulation.

It's one of the issues I have on my 'Reasons to remain' list.

The only people who would benefit from TTIP are big corporations. 'Outers' are generally in favour. 'Inners' are split. Most big business is in favour of remaining and also in favour of TTIP; some 'inners' think that if it goes ahead we'll get a better deal as part of the EU than as stand-alone UK; other 'inners' have been hoping the whole thing will be vetoed, which is likely.

Thanks gg I can't do links.

*picked up (typo)

From what I have seen over the last year or so I am against TTIP but can anyone tell me what there could be good about it that would make any sane person think it was a good idea?

You know I have been thinking. All the vote no people who objected virulently to Obama telling us what to do ought to give TTIP some serious thought as Brexit will undoubtedly sign us up.

You're welcome Whitewave - a bit selfish really as I wanted to read it

Thanks daphne - it doesn't get any less complicated does it? I have been very concerned about TTIP so will watch to see if we get any more information from the media.

Welshwife I feel horribly prejudiced against it and can only see the big corporations benefiting. Perhaps we are moving in the direction where capital and big corporations run the world but that is not how I would like to see us moving forward . Perhaps someone will come along and give a more positive answer.

Apparently one of the reasons Trump has been so successful in the US election primaries is because grass roots Republicans are not keen in free trade agreements such as TTIP. For all the complaints about having come from the left in the UK, it looks as if it's not regarded as a good idea on the right either, except by rich politicians likes Obama, Cameron, and various EU dudes. Cynical, moi? As if.

about it

I see gg seems to be on the same wavelength as me, up to a point at least, with her "only big corporations benefiting".

Obama is one of the poorest US presidents ever!

The US has been negotiating TTP deals with other countries for years. It would encourage the US to import cheaply from other countries and Trump believes that it would put US manufacturers out of business with the loss of jobs for blue collar workers, who have been Trump's core supporters.

For countries trading with the US, it's likely to drive down wages and working conditions. The really big players would gain, because they would have a cheap global workforce and would have more power than elected governments. To be honest, we're already moving in that direction, with politicians with fingers in various pies.

Cameron says the NHS would be protected, but that's cobblers. We already have outsourced health and education services, which wouldn't be protected from a trade agreement.

The 'EU dudes' who support it are Cameron and Merkel. Cameron supports it, because he doesn't care if wages are driven down and sees it as a way to encourage American investment. Merkel's position is different, because Germany has a much stronger manufacturing industry, a positive balance of payments, hasn't gone down the route of selling off the family silver to foreign investors and is looking for new markets for its goods. Germany sees TTIP as opening up American markets.

Other 'EU dudes' are either neutral, the low wage economies which can export cheaply or high growth countries, like Estonia, which are looking for new high income markets.

It's highly likely that, just as the German economy dominates the EU, the US (and Germany) would dominate the trading bloc, so we'd be the puppet of two big players rather than one. It probably doesn't matter whether we're in or out of the EU, although remaining would almost certainly mean that we'd be able to negotiate a better deal, unless the whole thing is abandoned (which it might be). The UK currently exports more to the US than it imports, but that's likely to change.

Seen this dj?