NHS

life expectancy is rising so clearly we're getting better at staying alive even when we have health problems.

That's the problem! Well, it's a problem for the NHS (I don't suppose individuals see it in the same way), which is having to pay to keep people alive who would probably have died much younger 100 years ago.

I'm a bit surprised by that doctor's comment, gillybob. For a start I don't think doctors should be squeamish about being factual when it comes to health consequences of obesity. Secondly, I think a GP worth his salt ought to be able to tell by a quick glance whether someone's weight needs to be "addressed". I wouldn't have thought yours did so why did he need to know? Probably just to tick a box.

I think that, as a species, we are probably approaching the obesity epidemic in the wrong way. I don't think that blaming individuals or the food industry is the way to go about change. I know, for instance, that certain medications can upset a person's metabolism so that the body/brain/appetite communication doesn't work properly. Also, I think that as a species we are unique in having, during the last century, begun to provide ourselves with a superabundance of food rather than having a constant struggle to produce enough to go round (there are still inequalities but they are a lot smaller than they used to be in local and global terms). I think there simply isn't a quick fix solution. We will have to develop, and possibly even evolve, ways of dealing with this "problem" of overabundance and our already evolved and natural cravings for sweet things and other things that give us temporary satisfactions.

Meanwhile, also in global terms, in spite of the obesity epidemic, life expectancy is rising so clearly we're getting better at staying alive even when we have health problems.

I was in the doctors surgery on Tuesday and he asked me my weight and height. I replied in feet and inches/stones and pounds (which is how I feel most comfortable keeping track) the doctor looked at a chart on his wall in order to convert my statistics to metric and said "a sad state of the times when I have to remove the chart from the wall and turn it over a page in order to find your weight" .

Agreed :-D Unfortunately, many people weigh considerably more than they did when they were 15 and are often in denial about what they're eating, so do need to be shown/told what they they should be eating for their height and activity level.

PS. As you're quite little and your weight is stable, you're probably eating fewer than 200g of carbs. I only know this, because things did start to go wrong for me. My weight wasn't the problem, but I was diagnosed as diabetic in my late 30s, so have had to be very careful about what I eat.

Anything the government comes up with will make it sound like a nanny state. It does already the way it lectures us about what we should and shouldn't be eating. We might just have to lump that as the cost of people losing connection with their animal "body knowledge"—not having that natural communication between their appetites and their body that all other animals seem to keep.

I don't need to know how many carbs or calories I "should" be eating daily. My body tells me when I'm hungry and when I've eaten enough and I know what constitutes a good diet. The figures are completely unnecessary.

I'm five foot three and weigh 52kg, same as when I was fifteen.

I don't know how big you are, thatbags, but you should probably be eating about 200-250g of carbs every day, which will give you 800-1000 calories or about half of your energy requirement. All carbs eventually break down to glucose, so you want to choose the ones which will take longest to break down eg. not simple sugars, although they won't kill you, if eaten in moderation. I bet your grandmother knew that. Fat slows down the digestion of carbs. It's always amazed me that traditional foods, such as cheese on toast, a bit of butter on a baked potato, etc. are reasonably healthy options without people knowing anything at all about nutrition.

I agree with you about not needing to know much about the science of nutrition to eat healthily enough. I don't understand why the supplements and 'superfoods' market is worth millions when the simple truth, as you say, is moderation in all things.

The NHS claims that obesity costs billions. If that's the case, the government needs to come up with some effective public health messages, which don't make it sound like a 'nanny state'.

My paternal grandmother was virtually illiterate but she managed to understand that much and to get on with it including during periods of great poverty.

I don't know how many carbohydrates I supposedly "should" be eating, dd. I do know, however, that a balance of proteins, fats and carbohydrates is good so that's what I aim for. It is not difficult to do that and I am certain (yes, I do mean certain) that exact amounts don't matter so long as the balance is more or less right and you are getting a sufficient supply of minerals and vitamins from a varied diet. Having a varied diet in developed countries that have access to food from all over the world is not difficult.

I find it hard to understand how so many people are taken in by spurious claims but I accept that a certain amount of that is happening. I also think that people quite often have their heads in the sand and just want to blame someone else for their eating problems. I truly believe that anyone who can read, who has ever heard of the idea of moderation in all things, and who has the will to do it, can eat healthily enough for normal purposes without needing to know a great deal about the details of nutrition.

typo six = size

Of course there are 'hidden' carbohydrates in many of the foodstuffs we buy. People are being fed so many conflicting messages.

People make billions selling all sorts of diet plans and spurious claims about various super foods, supplements and so called forbidden foods.

The trouble is that the NHS really hasn't got to grips with reality, nor has the government. Obesity is a problem, which is likely to lead to ill health and premature deaths, but it really isn't to do with sugar-laden fizzy drinks.

I don't agree with you, thatbags. How many people actually know how many carbohydrates they should be eating for their body six and activity level? Very few!

How many people buy fruit juice and many other foodstuffs because they're marketed as 'healthy'? Many!

Sounds like a way of eating an orange to me, ww. There is probably the juice of more than one orange in a glass of ready made orange juice though. Wotevs: my guts just can't take that amount of fruit acid.

I take issue with this idea about "hidden" carbohydrates (straight sugar or otherwise). I don't think ingredients are hidden: the contents of packeted food have to be clearly pronted on the packet. Take a Supermarket brand Cornish pasty, for instance: if the ingredients list says "meat 18%" it's bloody obvious that the rest is mainly carbohydrate and fat since Cornish pasties are basically meat and potato with pastry and a few bits and bobs of other stuff. It's elementary, my dear Watson, as Holmes never said.

In any case, this is putting the 'blame' on the consumer. The main problem with the NHS is that it's underfunded for what people expect.

Haven't a clue, ww, but if you like it, I don't suppose it will do much harm. :-)

The whole idea of whole food groups being 'bad' is ludicrous anyway. We need carbohydrates as a cheap and efficient form of energy and sugar is the most efficient form - but loads of us eat too much of it, often because it's hidden away and don't know how much we're eating.

Does squeezing an orange with an old fashioned squeezer then putting all the fibrous bits into the glass with the juice count? Or can it just be seen as eating and orange?

I agree with you, thatbags. I can't stomach fruit (or any) juices. The juicing fad amazes me, because it's marketed as a healthy option when it isn't.

Childhood obesity in the UK has begun to fall, although adult obesity continues to rise. There are strong regional and socio-economic links to obesity.

If the government can't/won't do anything about obesity, why does it spend so much money monitoring it and insisting that every school age child is weighed?

I'm afraid I don't think the sugar tax on soft drinks will make much difference, if any.

Cucumber in water! Why on earth? Why not just eat cucumber?

Weirder and weirder.

I just don't drink fruit juice. It rips my guts out, especially orange juice. Poison!

I squeeze an orange every morning at breakfast and drink that. They are really good at the moment.

Yes Bags. Personally I prefer to drink my 80ml orange juice, and then later on, my 200ml water.
I find diluting fresh juice in a ratio greater than 2:1 juice to water leads to a very insipid flavour, which is why fruit squashes are loaded with sugar or artificial sweetener.
Yesterday in a restaurant the table water was served with slices of cucumber in it. Way to go

It's also possible to live heathily and never drink fruit juice at all.

Drink!!