NHS

I am prepared to read VQ's post because she produce an straight forward summary in her own words, and without political bias. It was interesting.

DJ, you bombard us with links that just repeat the same old tale over and over, gets very boring, plus you are never prepared to listen to any one else's opinion if it doesn't agree with your own.

dj we agreed with vq's summary but not necessarily that it should be fully funded by govt. Are there some NHS services that could be paid for in some way similar to the French system which seems to provide better care than ours does? Via insurance schemes. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't necessarily mean its the best way. My late Dad was an NHS Dr and in retirement visited France and discovered that their way of providing health care was much better. A bitter pill for him to swallow!

GandTea,

Frankly I don't care which posts you're prepared to read. That's entirely your choice and I wasn't aware that you'd been appointed as Gransnet's censor.

It could be said of a number of posters that everything they write has a political bias and they don't use their own words, as they often repeat (almost verbatim) what they've read in the media. Many of them don't listen either, but whinge, moan and play the victim card about lefties and/or other people, with whose views they don't agree.

Jane 10,

The French pay considerably more for their health care system than the British.

The question is whether to pay more as individuals or to spread the cost through the tax system. A brutal accountant's view would be to stop treating the patients who cost the most, which includes the over 85s and premature babies. Is that what you want?

Personally, I think a rich country such as the UK should be treating those who cost more, but if, as a society, a collective decision is made not to treat them, we have to live with that.

Given that the NHS seems to need more funding, and given that the government isn't prepared to give it any more, looking at possible alternative solutions to the problems it has doesn't seem unreasonable. (Yes, I'm aware that's pretty much what jane10 said). It does seem a bit unreasonable to keep harping on about how awful the government/the politics is when there's bugger all we can do about that until 2020 at least. But really, it's looking more and more as if a quite comprehensive restructuring is what is needed. My guess is that this will happen piecemeal whichever flavour of government we have over the next few parliaments.

Here we go again is it really beyond the wit of man or gran to have a discussion without getting snippy daphnedill
I wasn't aware you'd been appointed Gransnet's censor


Could we just stick to the discussion?

I'd be prepared to pay up to £10 for a GP appointment and a prescription charge. I'd also be OK about paying towards an insurance scheme. They don't have to be profit making. People on benefits or with long term conditions should be exempt of course. This would certainly make me think about whether or not my problem is a health one.

thatbags,

The NHS has just had comprehensive restructuring, which has CAUSED some of the current problems.

Unfortunately, I think your conclusion is correct, because no political party will risk losing the 'grey vote'.

Leaving aside the US which spends a ludicrous amount of money on health care with no significant improvements in outcome, the UK spends significantly less (approximately 25%) than countries such as France, whose health care system is so often praised. OK, so just throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it, but...

'The UK has fewer hospital beds when compared to the size of the population. Germany has about 2 and a half times more hospital beds available adjusted for population size than the UK. In 2014, the Guardian reported that the only European country to have fewer hospital beds per head was Sweden. An OECD report from 2014 showed the UK has fewer doctors per person than any other western European country except Ireland, and relatively few MRI or CPR scanners per person.'

Source www.sochealth.co.uk/2015/01/18/international-comparisons-say-nhs/

I would be interested to know what Jane10's father thought was so much better about French health care and how any of those differences could be applied to the NHS WITHOUT ANY INCREASE IN FUNDING.

I think anybody over 60 who moans about the NHS should be very careful what he/she wishes for. Health care spending increases exponentially when people reach their 60s. People of working age have been squeezed about as much as it's possible to squeeze and, however unpopular it is, I suspect we're going to see further cuts to social care for the elderly and, possibly, some cuts in treatment options, although the slimey government won't want to take responsibility. It would rather blame local authorities when people die of lack of care, heating and food, etc.

But look on the bright side! Those who can afford care will be just fine!

Good for you, Jane 10! There are plenty of people who would struggle to pay for a GP appointment. This has been discussed by GPs, who concluded it would actually cost more to collect the money than it was worth. The cost is likely to be more like £30 or £40.

PS. I couldn't afford to pay for GP appointments and, before I was eligible for free prescriptions, I used to prioritise the medications on my prescription anyway. I also couldn't afford the bus fares for clinic appointments when I was unemployed, so didn't go.

However, I do agree that wealthier pensioners should pay for prescriptions. An insurance system would also mean that they would continue to pay for health care. I suspect that this is what the government has in mind, so don't moan when it happens.

Alea, Very happy to stick to the discussion, if other people stop behaving like censors!!!

daphnedill , What a load of rubbish, how you work out I was censoring anyone I fail to see. I was simply answering DJ,s question. Anyone can say what they like provided it does not break GN rules, but no one has to agree with the comments, or are you now setting the rules?

Tut! Tut! How about sticking to the topic, GandTea? Your post directed at durhamjen was an attempt to intimidate her. Would you prefer the word 'bully'?

Now then...back to the topic!

daphnedil Dad didn't say that the level of care in France was available without cost. The bottom line is that good health care is expensive and we have become too used to taking it for granted that all and any health care issue should be sorted foc by the govt. Yes we pay our taxes (well I do) but I'd prioritise my health to the extent that I would be prepared to pay a directly focused amount to an insurance policy.

I can't afford to pay to see the GP and like daphnedill I had to prioritise my meds until I qualified for free prescriptions. I would buy a three month prepayment certificate and try to stockpile meds so I could get away with a couple of months extra before I had to buy a prepayment certificate again. Stockpiling might be OK for some people but it can be pretty dangerous for people with my mh issues.

I paid into a health insurance scheme for over 30 years before I became too ill to work. Most workers still pay into it. It's call the National Insurance Scheme. Why should anyone have to pay into another private scheme unless they want to go private?

Fine. Stick to the same old same old and keep complaining. I'm just trying to say that just because a thing has 'aye been' as we say up here it doesn't mean that its the best or only way. Health needs are growing, treatments are developing and we can't expect to meet 2016 demand with a 1940s solution. We need to think differently and understand that healthcare is expensive and be prepared to pay if necessary. I've already said that those on benefits or who have long term conditions should be exempt.

That's all very well for you, Jane10. You can obviously afford it, but I wonder if others who could afford it would also be willing to pay. What about those who can't afford to pay? At the moment, I don't earn enough to pay income tax, but am not eligible for any benefits either. I live on an extremely tight budget and, quite simply, couldn't afford to pay for my prescriptions or for GP appointments for ongoing conditions. As stated, in the past I couldn't afford bus fares for hospital/clinic appointments, so didn't go, which has had lasting effects on my long-term health. There are many other people in the same situation.

When I was working full-time, I paid my taxes (occasionally at higher rate) and my National Insurance contributions, so don't feel that there's a moral argument to get me to pay now that my health is failing.

PS. It's a shame your father couldn't come up with something which didn't cost money. It really is no surprise that the French health care system is perceived as better. The bottom line is that it costs more.

daphnedill, so it's ok for you to go off topic to attack me and call me a bully. If You think I was a bully, that would be against GN rules. Report me and let GN decide.

Completely off-topic, but I lve that description "aye been" Jane10 it takes me back to the Borders and the sensitive issue of ladybriderscat Hawick Common Riding!!
Which sort of brings us back to Doh Muirfield!

Flippin heck, what is my iPad on?
Try again
"Lady riders at Hawick Common Riding"

Does anyone know if you can pay your own GP for a private consultation. I have a number of minor annoyances that I would like treated, but do not feel they are important enough to book a NHS appointment. I you have, what did it cost ?

But you would still be taking a GP away from other patients. As far as I know, you can't book a private appointment with an NHS surgery, but there are private GP practices, where you can book an appointment.

An example is here:
www.cambridge-private-doctors.co.uk/index.html

20 minute appointment £85
30 minute appointment £120
60 minute appointment £240

Prescriptions and diagnostic tests, such as blood and urine tests and scans, are extra.

The doctors used to be my GPs and free.

You can also pay for health checks with organisations such as BUPA and Nuffield Health.

daphne despite your offensive comment about my Dad who frequently went far and above the call of NHS duty I will persevere with this thread. I think like many people I could afford to pay towards my healthcare. Of course this might mean foregoing certain things that I'm accustomed to doing such as hairdos or holidays but, frankly, health is more important. Its a question of priority.
We.just.take.the.NHS.for.granted! We need to think differently about it, how its run and how its funded.
Lets hear your actual ideas rather than just the status quo.

What offensive comment did I make about your Dad? It certainly wasn't intended to be offensive. You, yourself, wrote that the answer is money and I agree.

Jane10, You really are being offensive now. I can't afford hairdos and holidays either. Difficult as you obviously find this to understand, some of us don't have the resources to prioritise.

My rent is £825pm (the cheapest I could find) and I'm not eligible for housing benefit or any other benefits. My total income per annum is less than £10,000. Go figure!

(PS. I'm gritting my teeth here and going to walk away from the computer, because what I actually think of you most certainly would get me banned.)

Bye for now!

How on earth do you pay your bills and afford to eat, dd?

(serious question, BTW, I'm genuinely perplexed, not doubting you...)