Muirfield golf club

While, as a feminist I do understand that the attitude of the golf club is somewhat antedeluvian, still I cannot help feeling there is something to be said for the right of a club to fix its own membership. They will have to bear the financial and social drawbacks of being banned from holding the Open and, if they are prepared to do that, then it is up to them to choose.

For me, the modern idea that everyone should be forced into thinking and doing what the elite dictates is increasingly authoritarian.

In my book group we discussed the idea of allowing men to join and quickly realised that the competitive element and the leader-followers mentality which men would inevitably introduce would spoil the friendly, equal, inconsequential yet useful conversation we all enjoy. We do have a couple of 'queen bees', or rather a 'queen bee' and a 'QB's lieutenant' but we can cope with that.

Who cares! let anyone have a club if they want to - what is this ganging up on anyone who expresses an opinion - women (whatever they are?) should have their own club - if women stopped complaining about being victimised and did something, things would be different. Get a life!!!!!

Yesterday's Matt cartoon in the DT

It doesn't seem to be how good or bad the women play. It's just the men want their own club. So why not?

Men only clubs - just think of all the cakes they are missing out on.

PS I'm not interested in being a little home wrecker. I'm only in it for the scones

I used to work as a cleaner in a Social Club with a snooker room. The sign on the door said 'No Women Allowed' except of course we were women cleaners and they expected the room to be cleaned. We decided as a group (there were 4 of us altogether) to petition the Committe to change the sign to just say 'Members Only' as, of course, women couldn't be members. If they didn't we said that we would not enter the snooker room to clean it, thereby breaking their rules of no women allowed. They changed the sign. I know it seemed like a petty thing to do but it was quite satisfying.

Just realised

a)I'm a member of our local golf club
b) I'm a woman

c) I don't play golf and never have!

Hooray for open minded golf clubs with great catering!

I'm finding it extraordinary that you all seem to be assuming that all women are either married or bent on breaking up other people's marriages

Sorry, MaizieD, who all?.

I fail to see what all the fuss is about. This is a private club, if they wish to be men only that is fine. No one is forced to join if they don't like the policy. They have been excluded from events, as a result.
There are plenty of other clubs that welcome women. i suspect that in a few years the membership may well vote differently, then is the time for women to stick two fingers up to them.

And I think that the WI 'argument' is a complete red herring. The WI was created by women for women; it concentrated on issues which were important to women when it was founded; issues once considered to be exclusively in the female domain (though not nowadays).

Golf club's were exclusively male from the word go because women just didn't 'do' clubs, not because golf was an exclusively male game. When it comes to 'talking golf' I should imagine that women, from the start, have been able to hold their own in golfing conversations, there being nothing inherently 'male' about hitting a little ball with a club (unlike centuries old asumptions about domestic work) so not being able to join in the 'male' conversations about golf is hardly an issue.

If it's talk on other topics men are worried about they don't need an exclusive golf club for that.

Anyway, even if women were admitted as members why assume that they're going to be always hanging around listening to, or putting a damper on, men's conversations?

There is a Telegraph article about a man who was appointed secretary to the WI but could not be a member. However it would not attach here.

I was a barmaid in a men only club in the 80's and severely challenged by some female friends for taking it on - it helped us buy our first house! - . Because there were often quiet times I found myself supporting men of all ages who confided they were confused about their role in society in relation to women, unsure how to behave, worried about how they should be to be accepted by women. Some were anxious that they (men) may become redundant sexually (or otherwise) in due course. Others sought help with their dependency on alcohol. These men used the club, in part, as a refuge from their responsibilities which, they still in those days were largely perceived by them to be as 'the provider'.

There were ladies nights, however which I hated. The noise and atmosphere were horrendous, high pitched, excitable and feverish. It was completely different from the day to day calm and quiet or the quiet murmur, and occasional shout - of a snooker championship - yes there was a very good snooker table. I recognise that I was enjoying my privileged position as confidant to some of these men and consequently probably resented the intrusion of other women - I was quite young for my age - , but I still believe that there is room in society for clubs of all colours of the rainbow. People can choose whether to join or not. Healthy clubs evolve with changing society. Some survive; others do not.

I can't speak for Frank64 or Andy, but as the "other" male poster here, I have been following this thread with some interest. Personally, I find it bizarre that this club actually WANTS to discriminate in this way - I just cannot see the point (that said, I can't see the point of golf either, but that's another matter). Perhaps if the female members of the local business community started refusing to supply the club, this attitude might change.

Nobody likes feeling excluded, .

I'm finding it extraordinary that you all seem to be assuming that all women are either married or bent on breaking up other people's marriages.

What about single women golfers; or lesbians? What if a transgender (male--> female) person wants to join; would s/he be able to join because it says 'male' on their birth certificate ?

I think if I were to put forward a credible argument against their decision I would have to seriously consider my opinion on all single gender clubs and some of those I'm a member of. Are we really discussing an equality issue here?

I can see nothing wrong at all in women or men only clubs. or to mixed for that matter, I belong to the. w I, and we have a different type of banter when we are all women, than when one of the members husband is there. That doesn't mean I don't like men, quite the opposite or that I think one sex is superior to the other, but we do have different views on certain things, what is wrong with that. I get heartily sick of people banging on about absolutely everything has to be politically correct, when a bit of common sense is all that is needed. I made it in a man world as it was then, with determination and a sense of humour and belief in myself. Know I'm going to be shot down, but I do think men are starting to get a raw deal now.

How many men are in the WVS ?

Angela1961 It's a misconception, the word GOLF is actually an old Scots word meaning club.

Where is Frank 64 when you need him?
His input (and Andy's ) might have been interesting!)

I think I read somewhere that maybe they don't want to host any major championships as the members can't play during them - ?

Having seen on TV the golfers playing at Muirfield, I can see they would be embarrased by the lady golfers who play a better game.

There is a point that I can see - I participate in a couple of sports that have predominantly male players, and there are always one or two women who join and turn up with wholly inappropriate acres of cleavage, clouds of perfume, and behave like 'Carry On' starlets. Never sure if they are trying for a rich husband or just aiming to break up as many marriages as they can but either way they are certainly disruptive and their attendance has little to do with the sport that the club is for. Well of course the men see through them? Do they hell! "But she's a really nice person!" Is the usual comment if anyone questions their reason for being there. Hmmmmm!

It does seem rather dated not to allow women golfers to join - but I can appreciate that some men do want to play golf with other men and not have to worry about upsetting women either on the course or in the club house. I am sure that after time these problems sort themselves out but when a club changes to take women members there are often teething problems. Unfortunately (hate to say this) I am aware of some women members getting (or trying to get) over-friendly with each other and this has caused marriage breakdowns. This can happen anywhere but clubs do seem to have more than their fair share of problems.

Men at the WI!!! Let's not bring up that old chestnut. The WI is about empowering women and giving women an opportunity to meet and make friends and socialise with other women in their area, learn new skills, go on outings, listen to talks, etc. Men often go on the trips with their partners and there are WI holidays which partners and family members are welcome to go on. It is unique and should remain so..

Can't see why they don't admit women as members when they do allow as guests. It smacks more of exclusivity than sexist, so that they can prance around saying WE don't admit women members. Personally I'd rather not pay the fees, but I am glad they have been penalised for refusing to change.

Bunch of old dinosaurs -would be cross with their feebleness but hate golf anyway -all golf courses should be turned back into free public parks -golf is a non sport for the feeble