EU - I'm in a quandary

Are we getting a bit tired and tetchy people? Can I suggest a few of remedies.
1. If you are Welsh, or even half Welsh, WALES JUST BEAT RUSSIA 3-0. Just Tweeted "C'mon Wales, You know you love Europe" We won at singing as well
2. If you are not even a teeny, weeny bit Welsh, have a look at the hashtag #CatsAgainstBrexit. Very, very funny. While you are there, do feel free to follow me for more fun and frolics. Just PM me if you can't find me.
3. Jump on a train to Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwndrobwylllantisiliogogogoch station and meet me for a bit of good natured campaigning in the Anglesey sunshine. I am quite serious. that is where I will be campaigning tomorrow I'll buy you a "panad" = cuppa.

Although I'm a firm Remain voter I have to spring to Jalima's defence. DH and I and many of our acquaintances definitely foresaw the looming problems of the crazy lending that was going on. I well remember begging our youngsters not to take out the massive mortgage that they were offered. We were very worried and, as it turned out, we were right to be. The pity was that the fat cats couldn't seem to see what was obviously going to happen -or maybe they did but didn't care. Jalima is not alone.

nigglenellie was talking to me, I think, not everyone in general.

It's OK, nigglynellie I have by now realised that I know nothing much, and what I do know is worthless, not worth an opinion really
but I am psychic

It's not stifled conversation at all. You've just joined in, niggly.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/20/brexit-fake-revolt-eu-working-class-culture-hijacked-help-elite

Jalima, you are right, it is the rudeness of certain posters such as you have just experienced that dissuades others from joining in, leaving a particular group (the converted) to talk amongst themselves. It certainly does stifle conversion which is a great pity.

Obviously not as clever as Jamila and her friends.
Obviously not

Which ordinary people do you know who could see that last recession, Jalima, and why did they not tell anyone?
Rubbish, Jalima. You all just watched and sat back and laughed, did you? Hindsight's a wonderful thing.
Foresight is good too, and some members of my family did have that and were in a position to warn but no notice was taken.

That's what some of us find appalling and is what you find appalling from the opposite perspective.

I do see why most posters leave the political threads and just a few end up talking amongst themselves.

Enjoy

Obviously not as clever as Jamila and her friends.

jalima

jamila I am impressed that your friends understood what was going on in relation to bank leverage and the sub- prime mortgages. Because in a lot of cases even the bankers didn't understand the implication of what was being done.

Pleased I bother you, obieone.

I always get bothered by anyone, anyone at all who says hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Foresight used to be valued, expected and talked about.

You never hear it said about nowadays. Especially by leaders. It seems to have gone out of fashion.

You all just watched and sat back and laughed, did you?
Why on earth would we laugh? People we know lost their homes; were left in debt because they borrowed to the hilt.

That is a stupid comment djen and very rude.
Par for the course I suppose
And no, it is not hindsight, we were worried about the unlimited borrowing and spending but were being reassured 'no more boom and bust'.

Sorry, there is no free trade agreement over services without the free movement of people.

Rubbish, Jalima. You all just watched and sat back and laughed, did you? Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

This is interesting, about the single market. It's not possible with services, as it requires the free movement of people. 80% of our trade with the EU is in services. There is no single market agreement over services anywhere in the world because of that.

ukandeu.cmail19.com/t/r-l-skldtc-hypjyhjw-m/

Which ordinary people do you know who could see that last recession, Jalima, and why did they not tell anyone?
Everyone I know - we talked about it (a couple of financial experts amongst my friends and family, but most are not). Surely most people with any sense could see that the reckless lending by banks and the reckless spending on credit would all end in tears?

That doesn't make sense
probably not to you, but it does to me The more people have their ears bashed by dire warnings of what WILL happen, veiled comments and inferences that they are racist thugs if they vote out, the more they will think 'well, I am NOT a racist thug and there are many reasons for voting out, lets have a good think about it all'.
People don't have to like Farage or agree with him to want to vote out for reasons which they have worked out for themselves from listening, reading, balanced discussions.
Likewise, many people seem to loathe Cameron and Osborne but will still vote remain despite that and despite not agreeing with much that they say at all.

obione, those are the real fat cats (doesn't make any EU fat cats excusable, at all- but the least of our worries really:

An extract from Paul Mason's article arguing that Brexit is a "fake revolt".
www.theguardian.com/…/brexit-fake-revolt-eu-working…

Dyson is campaigning for out - so out that he has taken his production units to Malaysia for cheap labour - is that what we want!? Has he really got British workers at heart?

Which ordinary people do you know who could see that last recession, Jalima, and why did they not tell anyone?

That doesn't make sense. We don't know what will happen if Brexit win so it's better to vote for that because we definitely won't know [which is a certainty] #betterthedevilyoudontknowthantheoneyoudo

So many people are SO SURE of what will happen
and the more people who think they KNOW what will happen, the more it encourages people to vote Brexit.

The truth is, no-one knows
Pundits, financiers, experts in their fields - they are not always right.
As for the last recession - how come ordinary people could see it would all end in tears, but the politicians could not see it coming?

No he won't he will step into the Lords and take his place in Johnsons cabinet.

Well, one thing if we Brexit, he will be out of a job granjura - that can't be bad can it?

(but if we remain, what will be his position then )

... are aware (no 'not')