EU - I'm in a quandary

You'll find obione that even those who have firmly decided for 'remain' are not aware that there are many negative or even deplorable things about the EU that do not need to be addressed. Most FAT CATS in the uk are not related to Europe- Europe didn't cause our banks to fail, Europe is not those who do not pay fair tax and live off the dividends of companies that do not pay fair tax.

But yes, there are fat cats in the EU- one of the worst examples is Farage- who gets paid a high salary to be MEP and had not done his job at all- attending only 1 of 40+ meetings for the Fisheries Commission- than dares complain that the UK has not had a fair deal (despite having 2nd highest quota) - how dares he go on about it- when he has not done his job in any way shape or form, to fight for the UK's interests.

I know, it is a conundrum, isn't it obieone

People who have been very vexed about elitism, cronyism, fatcats, corporate greed,, TTIP, etc etc are all for remaining in this group of disparate nations with bloated, overpaid bureaucracy making unaccountable decisions that affect all our lives.

I shall talk myself back to Brexit by the end of the day. And that is nothing to do with immigration or veering towards the right wing.

That is part of what I cannot understand about Remain. They are largely the ones who say more, much more about elitism, cronyism, fatcats, corporate greed, and yet we all know that the EU is a gravy train for many.

Just when I thought I had made up my mind:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3649655/How-Brussels-spends-money-grows-trees-devastating-dispatch-reveal-Eurocrats-live-life-staggering-excess-10-000-earn-PM-s-150-000-taking-decisions-affect-lives-secret.html

So - just what surprises await us if we Remain?

Those of a nervous disposition need not follow the link
Those who despise the Daily Mail need not follow the link

Tegan this statement about scrapping vat on domestic fuel is similar to the 'pledge' made by Pritti Patel to spend some of the saved money on the NHS. As the Radio 4 interviewer so correctly asked her 'On whose authority are you making this promise?'. It is all very well listing the 'coulds' and 'shoulds' but unless the Brexit spokespeople are the Chancellor next time it is highly unlikely.

https://www.myutilitygenius.co.uk/suppliers/
A list of the UK's energy suppliers; if anyone wants to find out who owns what I presume you can find out by clicking on the link to each company.

'Finally on energy, the poorest households spend three times more of their income on household energy bills than the richest households spend. As long as we are in the EU, we are not allowed to cut VAT on domestic fuel. When we Vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax.'
..from Gisela Stuart. So we have it in black and white that this will be implemented in the event of a leave win. Although the words 'will be able to' don't mean that they will be. Ana the answer to your question is 'I don't know'.

An excellent question Ana. I am indeed surprised as massive reliance on European and Scottish companies, which we simply couldn't avoid - could has a massive impact on our utility bills and industry too, and of course the NHS, Schools, etc.

So why hasn't the Remain campaign made much of that aspect, I wonder?

Thanks; just read that article confirming what granjura has said but couldn't do a link...

ukandeu.ac.uk/swots-of-the-uks-membership-of-the-eu/

Thank you Tegan- surely it is so simple to see. If free movement of goods and people is no longer possible for the big car manufacturers, and the little manufacturing we still have, and high tariffs are slapped on to goods made in the UK- they will just up and go.

One thing that has never been mentionned yet here, I think- is our massive reliance on French and other European companies for energy, electricity, gas, and so on. They just have us on a barrel- we can't do without them to survive. so what happens when they decide top massively up the prices if we leave??? We couldn't say 'stuff you' as we just would not be able to build any stations that would replace them for a VERY very long time! What do we do in the meantime- get candles out and freeze?

They use the word 'could' when it comes to the NHS not 'would'.

But the car industry trade body, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders' (SMMT), warned leaving the EU would increase costs and threaten jobs.

"Remaining will allow the UK to retain the influence on which the unique and successful UK automotive sector depends," said chief executive Mike Hawes.

'Directors at Toyota UK, Vauxhall, Jaguar Land Rover and BMW, as well as from component makers GKN and Magal Engineering, also voiced their support.

Rory Harvey, chairman of Vauxhall, said: "We are part of a fully integrated European company where we benefit from the free movement of goods and people. We believe not to be part of the EU would be undesirable for our business and the sector as a whole."
..and yet the Leave pamphlet states that Vauxhall and Toyota said they will 'stay' in the event of a leave win. This is true in that they aren't planning to leave, but the companies appear to have stated that it will be easier for them if we do stay in the EU. And Unilever [another company mentioned] have written to their employees advising them to vote Remain. So, the pamphlet isn't actually lying but is worded in a way that makes those companies appear to support their campaign. [or am I getting this wrong in some way?]

I know
the Outers promise to use money saved by exit, however much that is, for the NHS, and farmers, and deprived areas of Britain - but I fear there will be a huge financial crisis here. By which I mean a crisis in the banks, hedge funds etc. as, for instance, investors pull out and they lose Euro dealing. So guess what will happen to any £billions saved? Just as last time it will all - and then some- go to prop up the financial sector.

This is a podcast about the referendum. Lots of questions answered by university professors, including why on earth are we having this referendum?

theconversation.com/anthill-2-brexit-special-60581

Tegan for you. What to do with ridiculous Brexit leaflets.

theconversation.com/rubbish-for-remain-or-bins-for-brexit-how-the-eu-affects-your-garbage-60830

theconversation.com/britain-could-be-a-key-global-player-if-it-stays-in-the-eu-60742

This saying that if we vote remain we could be a more important country than Germany in 20 years.

Plus a letter to the Guardian from Nobel prize-winning economists stating that The UK will be better off if the country remains in the EU.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/19/we-nobel-prize-winning-economists-believe-the-uk-is-better-off-in-the-eu

Good morning .
Today's referendum news is that Baroness Warsi has defected from Leave to Remain, the second high profile Tory woman to do so (and there are not many high profile Tory women) She cites the xenophobic, lying tactics of the Leave campaign as her reason.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-referendum-baroness-sayeeda-warsi-defects-from-leave-to-remain-a7090741.html

And UK car manufacturers and others also make the case for Remain.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36572405

www.precariouseurope.com/power/europeans-speak-on-the-uk-referendum

Interviews with young people in every country of the EU about Brexit.

it illustrates so well the serious consequenses of a 'protest' vote can have!

It'll soonbe time to make more of that, varian.

You are so right Granjura. To make matters worse many of the seats which changed from Libdem to Tory in 2015 were where illegal election expenses are being investigated,

Why not? If the Lib Dems had again gained sufficient votes to have a significant number of seats to balance out extremes- the situation may have been very different and the Referendum possibly not called.