EU - I'm in a quandary

From Wikipedia

Potential EU Membership

It has been speculated as early on as 2005 that Canada could—some say should—join the European Union[by whom?]. Proponents argue that the cultural and political values of Canadians and Europeans have much in common, and that Canadian membership would strengthen both sides politically and economically. While conceding that Canada and Europe are over 3,000 km (1,900 mi) distant,[a] being separated by the North Atlantic, proponents note that the EU already has a member, Cyprus, that is geographically outside Europe.

In addition, CETA is possibly the farthest-reaching FTA between the EU and a foreign country. Because of the nature of CETA, some have said that it wouldn't be that far of a leap to EU membership. There have not been any polls conducted on the opinions of Europeans or Canadians regarding closer relations and EU membership. Anglophone nations in the EU, such as the UK and Ireland would likely support Canadian membership, and it might decrease Eurosceptic attitudes in the UK while strengthening the Anglophone bloc in the EU. Furthermore, the province of Quebéc would help to strengthen the Francophone bloc in the EU, with Francophone nations such as France, Luxembourg and Belgium likely to support Canadian membership. EU membership may also help to curb separatist sentiments in Quebec. In addition, it may decrease Canadian dependence on the United States regarding trade, and security. It would also easily meet the Copenhagen Criteria for EU membership. Additionally, the EU is Canada's second-largest trading partner, and with EU membership, it could become the largest. Canadian and EU officials have not yet commented on this.[10][11][12][13]

Do you not think that there is a difference Pogs between these two :
1. immigrants could come here and rape women
2. an independent report, commissioned by the CBI, predicts that nearly a million jobs likely to be lost in the next 4 years.

Here's some information on the Canada agreement. If we leave we will lose out the advantage this would give us when trading with Canada, while other EU countries would be happily trading. We would have to start a long process of reaching a similar deal with them ourselves. This is the sort of thing Obama was talking about when he used the phrase "back of the queue" - despite what we think of as historic links with Canada we would still have to go through the lengthy process of establishing new trading arrangements.
ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ceta/

Canada is not wanting to become a member of Europe. It is trying to agree to the equivalent of TTIP, which is CETA, the Canada Europe Trade Agreement.

ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ceta/
They are wanting just a free trade agreement.

JessM

I genuinely don't have a clue what Canadians would or would not decide but I hope they understand the full package they would be signing up to and not think of the EU as merely a Free Trade Area.

Exactly POGS I would agree on that, although there are also some valid concerns on either side as well of course.If only the world was black and white, but it never is just grey ( and sometimes foggy) areas for us to plough through.In the end, having thought about it all from different angles, we just have to go with our feelings.

This is my problem.

Both sides use scare tactics, but dependent on which side you are on you believe only the other side is using scare tactics but your side is giving valid information. No, it isn't, it's usually spin and sometimes lies.

Both sides use individual personalities to try to belittle the other side or to stir up dislike but dependent which side you are on you will see the other sides name calling as puerile and non objective.

Both sides talk as though they know absolutely, state categorically their side knows what will happen. No, they don't, nobody knows if we are better off in or out and there would be more respect given from the mainstream voter for anyone who admits that's the case and tries to give balanced opinions.

The only thing both sides share is the belief they and they alone know what's best. That doesn't help the undecided voter who is trying to bypass the spin and bias looking for answers

Very interesting JessM! Just off to do my hair. That's it done. 20 seconds!
Seriously I get your point. You've been involved in recruiting at the sharp end. Important to consider when thinking about immigration (and also training/education over here)

DH just came downstairs and remarked that Dyson now manufactures in Malaysia.

Yes of course they will agree pogs.
1. Otherwise they will never get the other benefits of membership.
2. Countries like Canada need immigrants - just like we do.
I worked in recruitment in the SE of England (as I did until a couple of years ago).
There is a shortage of skilled labour there - I have advertised skilled posts (in computing) for which I have had not a single UK born applicant. Restricting this would harm the businesses we need to repair our struggling economy.
There is also a shortage of unskilled labour in the South - who works in the coffee shops and hotels right across the South? EU visitors, of course, all improving their English and contributing to our economy.

James Dyson has been moaning. One of his moans is that it takes too long to recruit an engineer from India. Why does he think this would be better if we were out of Europe? There's not a chance that the home office etc would speed up of we left when they would have to be handling applications from all over EU at the same time as the Indians. (He also said, when promoting his new £300 hair dryer, that most of us spend at least 20 minutes doing our hair in the morning.) He's produced some great inventions but he can be very silly.

I agree that it's very confusing - the fact that the opinions are so polarised between high ranking members of, say. the labour party make it even more so. While there are things on both sides I agree with one of the things that has helped to keep me in the remain camp is the fact that Nigel Farage, Katie Hopkins and Donald Trump want us to leave

As someone who was originally in the remain camp, I am now struggling to decide. I have a postal vote and have sat down with my pen and voting paper several times now thinking "right, this is it" ready to put my cross in the box. The more I read and hear the more I am left wondering.....

Do you think the Canadian people will agree to 'the free movement of people' agreement if it ever decided to join the European Union.?

I had heard that about Canada but didn't know if it was true.

And talking about drop dead gorgeous people, any chance we could have Canada's PM?

I didn't know that about Canada. Wow! That's a really good reason not to leave the EU.

And just to help you ditherers, on a lighter note, a number of completely drop-dead gorgeous people think it better for the arts if we stay in
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36338220

One of the interesting things about Australia it is so far away that very few of the shops have familiar names. You can just pop stuff in a lorry and they arrive anywhere else in the EU within 24 hours.
Canada has just spend 8 years negotiating a trade deal with the EU - just about to be implemented. Rumours that they will apply for full membership - and unlike some other contenders they would probably tick the relevant boxes re human rights, balance sheet etc.
If we leave Canada will just have access to free trade with the rest of EU. Why should they bother committing a large team of civil servants to negotiating with us?

@Jalima

Australia could very well stay part of the Commonwealth, which is little more than a talking shop these days. The Queen is still the official sovereign of Australia, but the Republican movement is strong. I thinking they're waiting for a change of sovereign.

More relevant to the UK/EU is that Australia's biggest export is minerals and the UK has no need for them. It doesn't make sense for the UK to export to Australia, when there's a much bigger market just on our doorstep. Australia has developed trading links with China and the Far East and I can't see much of an incentive to change.

Our local meps could be requested to hold open meetings.
Yes - where are they?

I wish there was more interest in the European Parliament and people saw the way it works for themselves, it is an eye opener at times. Time and again I have commented on the laziness of the UK media, especially t.v which is possibly the biggest source of information for most people.

There is a lot of trouble in the EU but we do not see the news reports unless we watch Aljazeera or Russia Today but the latter station is to be acknowledged as a tad anti American/British but none the less does show more European coverage and most certainly breaks news quicker than our t.v stations. BBC Parliament does cover the EU Parliament at times and Daily Politics but if somebody can point me to other stations that deal with EU issues I would like to hear about them.

I think the MEP's should concentrate on doing their job not coming back here to tell us what they are doing. Beside the MEP's don't agree with one another's views , no different from Westminster. You will only be paying out expenses to hear their political party dogma and you can assess that by listening and watching to Westminster.

Two of the biggest countries, Canada and Australia, are highly unlikely to join a queue to trade with the UK. Canada has the richest country on earth on its border and is far more likely to continue trading with the US. Australia is on the verge of wanting full independence from the UK. Over the years it has developed strong trading links with the Far East. It's highly unlikely that it would want to start trading with a small country on the other side of the globe
I know that is true, wilma, well about Australia at least. That is partly because we abandoned Australia and NZ because we wished to forge closer links with the EU. Naturally Australians have sought other markets, for mining, farming etc.
Many Australians have no links with Britain at all, their origins are worldwide. But the one thing they do have in common is a pride and a loyalty to Australia.
Australia is on the verge of wanting full independence from the UK.
I am not sure about that, despite their far-reaching origins. It is an independent nation but part of the Commonwealth.

I doubt very much that immigration is the biggest issue for the majority of 'Out' voters. You might think so from TV news reports and other possibly biased sources. Immigration is the least of my worries - in fact it barely impacts on my deliberations!

I think the effects of an exit will last far longer than just a couple of years - it will only be after a complete exit - at least two years that any negotiations about trading can begin. The Brexit camp have in no way said that they do not wish to trade with the EU and think that actually they will get a better deal. It does however take two sides to make a deal.
I do so hope that the optimism of those in the Brexit camp proves to be right if there us an out vote - otherwise we shall all be in for a very sticky time.

True, roses, but they are all very large international companies which would cause a great deal of unemployment if they left. Although I am obviously swayed by my families jobs I still worry about large numbers of the British workforce losing their jobs with the knock on effect of subsidiary industries as well. I can't help but feel a large number of voters are basing their vote purely on the immigration issue and nothing else. Even though I will vote to stay in, though, I'm still need to learn more about the issues involved.

if we stay in I think we should all start reading more about what goes on (there is lots on line)and perhaps the media should keep us informed too. Our local meps could be requested to hold open meetings. We need to try and make it work better for us.

That sounds like a brilliant idea!