EU - I'm in a quandary

I wish somebody would buy Cameron and Blair a one way ticket on a spaceship. Both seem so arrogant that they don't seem to realise that if they open their mouths, people are likely to think the opposite.

Crossed posts, Tegan.

It's very confusing isn't it. Just look on them as 'the lot that aren't 'Gove'; it makes it less painful [it works for me, anyway].

Peg on your nose time. Think about the alternative. Do you really want to vote with Boris and Gove?

Oh dear, I don't mind siding with Heseltine and Major but was always uncomfortable to find myself agreeing with Cameron. And now they've wheeled out Bliar. What to do?

Amid speculation about how deep and how long a post-Exit recession might be the CBI commissioned an independent report on the likely effect on the economy. Headline is that the report predicts that nearly a million jobs likely to be lost over the next 4 years.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/21/brexit-could-cost-100bn-and-nearly-1m-jobs-cbi-warns

The NFU said that 'on balance' it feels farmers would be better off in the EU but it also issued this statement

"18 April 2016 - NFU Council agrees the following resolution on the EU Referendum:
The NFU recognises and respects the diversity of views among its membership. The NFU’s position is based solely on an evaluation of the agricultural merits of the case and the NFU is fully aware there are many wider issues at stake.

The NFU will not be actively campaigning in the referendum; it will not be joining with any campaign groups and it will not, in any circumstances, advise its members how to vote."

The National Farmers Union support "Remain"

There are a few Out farmers of course. They keep popping up on TV. Johnson was out with the cameras talking to the converted last week. (DH says BJ owns a farm and therefore thinks he can speak for farmers

But if you look at the map of Wales, in terms of voting intentions (i think DJ posted one from Yougov, the more rural the county the more in favour of Remaining.

Does anyone have a list of 'inners and outers'? I saw a few people whose opinions I respect saying to stay in last night; Stephen Hawking, Chami Chakrabati [sp]Alan Sugar.

I don't live in Wales, but have just Googled. It seems Welsh farmers are overwhelmingly in favour of remaining. Where did farmers say they would get a better deal by leaving?

Which did surprise me somewhat.

At least,what I think was said, was that the farmers thought they would get a better deal by leaving?

Interesting what is being said about Welsh farmers here, as Annieb has said just the opposite, so which is it? Presumably, as you both live in Wales, you are in a position to know.

Yes some law firms and consultancies will make a fortune out of an Exit. I wonder whose donors/cronies those might be?

For those who still can't make up their minds.

www.thecanary.co/2016/06/08/miracles-supernatural-events-possible-brexit-argues-gove/

I was given a link on another forum which I can't seem to copy; it was rather long and I didn't really understand it but it seemed to point out that there would be a lot of problems concerning Northern Ireland if we leave...something to do with the Good Friday Agreement etc. It finished off by saying that lawyers were going to make a fortune out of it. I'll try to copy it again. By the way, on that particular forum it's 60/40 in favour of staying.

Good point Tegan the money being distributed around the UK on the basis of need is helpful to poorer regions. Less subject to Westminster allocating money where they want to win votes. Schools in the SE of England on the other hand are getting more money per head than N of England...
Am resisting the temptation to use very colourful language when talking about this. Revised version: Wales will be in a mess if we leave.
This because it will lose both regional funding and farm subsidies - the money from which helps to indirectly support a lot of rural businesses. The farmers are not believing Boris's promises.

Here is a quiz for you: www.crowdpac.co.uk

I did it and my result was 66% out

Thanks, Welshwife.
The best one I find is www.fullfact.org
It checks facts on all the speeches,both for and against leaving. Already it has checked PMQ for today.
If anyone has read everything on their EU thread and still does not know how to vote, then you never will be persuaded by facts. Therefore you should go with your instinct.

What worries me about the possibility of leaving is that I feel that EU money does seem to be distributed throughout the country and, if we leave it will all end up being spent on the SE. I know this isn't about EU money [at least, I don't think it is] but the government have already done a u turn about improving the A1 north of Newcastle, an incredibly dangerous road imo.

Honeypot if you don't think there is enough information to take the chance of leaving, please, please, vote to Remain. An awful lot of the coverage comes down to the battle between senior tories for control of their party.
Meanwhile the other parties (and most tory MPs) do NOT think it a safe plan to leave. Along with a lot of other people, more knowledgeable than I am, in the fields of economics, health, science, education etc.

We are all needing to base our decision on the facts we read or how we perceive the EU Honeypot - it is not easy for anyone. All you can do is to read as much as you can from a wide spectrum and then decide. Sometimes it is easier to look at what we/you would lose if we leave as well as how we are gaining while we are within the EU. I cannot remember the all the sites but * Jen* posts some which do tell you what is true etc. last night I read an article which showed that what Cameron said about his agreement made in February is absolutely true and it is agreed and will not be easy to change.

This seems an awful thing to say, but for first time I will not be voting on EU. I always vote in elections, you vote in the party you feel will do their best to run the country. You expect that these people have access to all the information they need to make the best decisions. I don't feel the general public know all the facts, how can we decide? all we can do is guess based on which politician we like, or guess based on black or white ideas. Nothings that simple and the idea of democracy is to elect people who have the knowledge to be best able to make decisions for our good.

They're ALL Remain threads...