EU - I'm in a quandary

I am going to eat before starting, Tegan Back soon.

Go and waste 25 minutes of your time, obieone. You can afford that much.

Obieone The first few mintues are taken up with him stating his credentials for commenting. If you were bored by that, no wonder you swallowed whole the bile spouted by people with no credentials at all.

elegran I think it is so important that it needs as wide publicity as possible. I'll dig in and add comments.

Well perhaps if you did watch the whole lecture, you might have learnt something new- perhaps? How can you know that you wouldn't- if you won't watch it?

I've watched it 3 times- and picked up new, very relevant and interesting things every time. And I amy well watch it again and make notes this time.

How can you make an informed judgement without agreeing to get informed? With such an important issue, with some important possible consequences- I find that truly disturbing.

Disagree and counter with other information- but jsut dismiss after 6 minutes- that I can't get.

Please do Elegran; I'm packing to go away and haven't got time to watch it properly...

Personally yes I do think it will be boring.
Granjura, as I said on another thread, I watched six minutes of it, and didnt learn anything new whatsoever.
Have you watched it?

Up to you what you do Elegran.

He says at the start of his lecture that his speciality is European law: He looks at EU institutions, relations between the EU and its member states, particularly the UK, the free market and the free movement of persons. What is more, he talks like a normal human being, not a fanatic.

As some people seem reluctant to watch this, I am thinking of watching it a bit at a time and posting summaries of some parts of it, (for those who are drowning in politico-speak, as well as those who prefer predigested facts as published in the yellow press).

If this will be boring and just adding to the mountains of words being shovelled onto us at the moment, please stop me right now - before I spend my valuable time on it.

Also I hear that David Beckham is in favour of staying in. You know it makes sense. He's definitely in the sweet category these days in my book and does a lot for charity in Africa etc.

I've been out talking to people most of the day. In this area not so many in favour of leaving. Quite a lot of women still thinking about it and willing to listen.
However there is an age divide with nearly all students saying they are keen to remain (and a large segment of less well educated young people not voting). Someone came over to help us from Llandudno area (haunt of many over 70 either on holiday or relocated there from N of England) Apparently it feels like wall-to-wall Leave.
I think it would be an an unmitigated tragedy if the oldest segment of society voted heavily to leave without a thought about what their grandchildren want. Here is a video of 16 year olds talking about their views on why they want to Remain. They are so sweet that they made me want to cry. www.facebook.com/StrongerInCampaign/videos/1198645500175772/

Yes of course it is.

The Leave pamphlet states that 'The next countries the EU wants to let in include Turkey, which has a population of over 76 million and borders with Iraq and Syria' Is this another 'fact' in the pamphlet that is untrue?

Lastly - ^ . . . the accession of future Member States requires the unanimous agreement of the 28 governments plus their national ratification processes. . . . no realistic prospect of Turkey joining the EU within any of our lifetimes – not least since several countries have indicated that they would hold national referenda on any Turkish deal, obviously in the expectation that their populations would overwhelmingly reject it.”

and - "Around 2 million UK nationals have also settled in other Member States . . . those migrants are more likely to be economically inactive, ie they are not actively contributing through work and taxes to their host society"

Also:- " . . .Eastern European migrants, . . .the UK was one of only three Member States (the others being Ireland and Sweden) that chose not to impose transitional restrictions on the rights to free movement of new EU citizens during the “Big Bang” enlargement of 2004. We chose to let these people come here as we did; no one forced us to and we could have decided otherwise."

Yes we really do know that - that is exactly what the Professors were saying on the the Brexit course I'm doing
I find it difficult to believe the lies that are being told.

Plus:-
"EU migrants are significantly more likely to be younger, better qualified and economically active; they pay far more into the country in work and taxes than they take out in public benefits or services."

kittylester yes, we do. All we can do is vote.

And:- "when it comes to settling in another country, there are three main categories of right under EU law:

for the economically active (ie in work and paying taxes);
for students (eg enrolled at university and thus paying tuition fees); and
for those wealthy enough to look after themselves and their families without relying on public benefits.

There is no right to “benefit tourism” under EU law."

Professor Dougan has also replied to comments that he did not mention immigration (he intended to but ran out of time)

He made several points.

One is "– a significant majority of the foreign nationals living in the UK (2/3 at the last national census), and over half the net immigration each year, come from outside the EU. That is almost entirely within our own domestic competence and power"

It pledged a lot of other things that it reneged on; why couldn't it have reneged on this one too? I don't seem to remember many people, at the time of the election citing the EU referendum as the main reason for voting Conservative? Which isn't to say they didn't; I just don't remember it that way.

But we do live in a democracy and this government was voted in along with its pledge to hold a referendum. And, if we do leave the EU, we will still live in a democracy.

Tegan I feel the same and have just posted a link on another thread to the Professor Dougan presentation. Anything to help debunk the myths and down right wrong information being shared.

tegan that is exactly how I am feeling. This country will be brought to its knees through ignorance, myth and lies.

I will fight to the last second to save it.

obione- what harm would it make to just watch it- and see for yourself? Surely, whatever side we are on- we should be open to listen to different expert points of view- surely?