Corbyn and No Confidence

Anniebach it is not that party members set out deliberately to elect a stop gap leader but it is what they get. The Conservatives did not set out to elect Hague, Duncan-Smith and Howard as temporary leaders. They voted for them because they genuinely believed that they could lead them to victory and would make excellent Prime Ministers, and they probably would have.

Electing a party leader is not just a cold blooded decision about who will best support the policies a party espouses, there is a lot of mood music, of feeling and sentiment that effect decisions even though those making the choice do not realise this.

It is also frequently forgotten that parliaments are not elected by party members but by the wider electorate, the vast majority of whom are not party members and are frequently more and more mobile over which party they support.

What happened with the Conservatives and I believe is happening to Labour, is that while the party clings more and more tightly to treasured beliefs and votes for leaders who have shown themelves loyal to them over many years, they alienate voters who see all these long standing veterans as tainted by what went before (Blair/Brown).

Like the Conservatives before them, Labour revival will have to wait for a leader who can say that he has no connection with the 'bad' old days and comes before the electorate pure and undefiled. That is why Cameron was successful. As yet no such candidate has been identified in the Labour party. They may have only been elected to parliament in 2015 and it will be the 2020 parliament before they are electable as party leader.

Corbyn has always had the idea that if only he can get everyone round the same table, he will be able to sort it all out.

I think he may have learnt now, that even if he is leader, it just doesnt work that way.

Labour revival will have to wait for a leader who can say that he has no connection with the 'bad' old days and comes before the electorate pure and undefiled.
A lot of people in the country as a whole may have backed Andy Burnham, but unfortunately he will always have the Mid-Staffs scandal and tragedies hanging over him, even though he redeemed himself with his support and hard work over Hillsborough.
His connection with the bad old days

I think the party will have to wait for the publication of the Chilcot report before they can move forward.

Obieone

Fair point made!

Monica, I was explaining to breeze she was mistaken

From what I've heard I think Corbyn did stick to his principles during the campaign by speaking about the parts of the EU he does support. What he didn't do is bang the drum about the things he doesn't agree with. He was one of the few people who spoke about the environment.

His problem is he's a quietly spoken man, not a great orator. It's not what he says that is the real problem, it's how he says it.

The trouble with his shadow cabinet is the ambition of some individuals and the cliques. He can't seem to get them working together. It seems no group will bite the bullet and start proposing policy that will catch the ear and please working class Labour voters. It is like the members of the shadow cabinet cancel each other out, giving the illusion of a party treading water.

I don't know what to say, except that commentators are saying politicians have not listened to the working class, yet if you listen closely to what Jeremy Corbyn says, I don't think that applies to him. Just my opinion of course.

A. Dry hiding lost Wilma. The problem is voters are mimpressed by what they call charisma not honesty

Anniebach I supported the ideas that breeze put forward and expanded on them so if you were saying breeze was mistaken you were saying that I was mistaken and I chose to explain why I shared the same opinons

GN is an open forum and even when a reply is directed to one person, anybody else who reads it can choose to respond. If you want to reply to one person alone it is better to send a PM.

I think Jeremy's biggest problem is not a lack of charisma but the back stabbing Blairites in the Labour Party who just refuse to accept their day is over and no one wants a return to their kind of politics. I considered joining the Labour Party after the election but didn't get round to it - I think it's essential now to try to have some influence over the future and get the message over to the likes of Margaret Hodge that Jeremy is the leader the membership wanted.

jalima Thank you for mentioning Andy Burnham and Mid Staffs. People forget, I don't.

Corbyn is a breath of fresh air precisely because he is not typical leader material. But he blows with the wind a bit and that will not wash as leader unfortunately. Parties like a certain type at the top and he does not fit the bill.

Corbyn is useless. He took hardly any part in this referendum, went on holiday in the middle. He might be honest , but he has no personality or charisma. With a strong Labour force to support the Remain vote the result would have been different. He was voted in by usurpers into the Labour Party who wanted to elect a loser, and they did. No confidence...you bet!

Jalima- i meant the levelled tone of speech, someone who is ready to pour water on any kind of disruptive discussion. Sorry! I've sat through so many conferences, and few were inspirational just like Corbyn is not inspirational.

The problem is that Corbyn is the leader that labour party memebers want, but not the leader the electorate wants.

Some level of charisma is necessary for a leader and Jeremey Corbyn has none. I am very disappointed by him. I was hoping he would rise to the challenge of leadership but all he has done is confirm why he was so long an MP who would have been utterly obscure if he hadn't made a policy of disagreeing with every policy or nearly every policy, his party espoused.

When he was elected party leader he somehow managed to whip up quite a head of steam. How did he do it? He has turned out to have as much charisma of a wet rag.

After a rocky start I hoped Corbyn would improve his presentation skills. I can't think of any other way to describe it. A leader needs a forceful personality. It can be quietly forceful, but only if you can carry off the trick of making people want to listen to you. Sadly Corbyn does not appear to be able to do this and it's such a shame that he is unable to provide an effective alternative to the school ground behaviour we see at PMQs. It doesn't even look like he will leave a legacy of excellent policies for the next leader to develop further and make the party electable. I admire the man, but I am disappointed.

That's not true, aquagran. Corbyn was all over the country in the campaign. It's just that the media was only interested in the division between Cameron and Boris.

Do you vote labour, Wilma?

Perhaps those social democrats still left in the Labour party should join the LibDems

I do. Always have. Why do you ask dj?

varian I always thought I would be a life long Labour voter, but I am tempted by the LibDems and the Greens. I won't waste my vote though by voting for a party that can't make a difference to the lives of those less fortunate.

Just wondered why you were so concerned about Corbyn. I do think he has excellent policies, which are labour party policies.

I think blaming the media for Corbyn's failure is a cop-out. If he actually put himself across, spoke ina way and language that inspired confidence in him, the press would follow him. He got enough publicity nwhen he was elected, but from everything I have heard he is unco-operative with the press and avoids it where possible.

David Milliband managed to be be constantly in the news. If he could manage it Corbyn should not have had a problem.

My heart is in LibDem/Green politics, although I voted for Labour in the last election. I knew my vote wouldn't count for anything with the FPTP system, but I just felt that I wanted it to be counted in the final tally.

I actually paid my £3, so that I could vote in the Labour leadership contest. I had intended to vote for Corbyn, because I thought he was genuine and honest (I still do), but in the end I didn't vote.

I would love to have him as my constituency MP, but I just can't see that he's a good leader. I really want to get rid of this horrible government, because I think it's done more damage to the fabric of society than any other I can remember (including Thatcher). I also think it's incompetent on economics. The only way that's going to happen is if Labour offers a viable alternative, perhaps in coalition with other parties, which I think could work. For that to happen, Labour has to have a leader who understands politics and inspires his party. I'm afraid I don't think Corbyn is the person to do that.

@ Monica

Did you mean David or Ed?