Scotland/Sturgeon

Bags perhaps because they were elected to represent the views of their constituents in the Parliament of the UK which is NOT another country but currently the one we live in and are governed by. As a wee aside - ATM Angus Robertson can muster more MPs in the house than Jeremy Corbyn or Tim Farron.

It appears, that after her visit to the EU yesterday, the powers that be are not prepared to negotiate with her.

Why should a nationalist party have influence in a country outside the one they want to nationalise, g23, except to abolish the need for their nationalism?

Scots in general have had a huge influence politically and otherwise in the rest of the UK for a very long time. A fact that pleases me greatly.

Many Gransnet posters have been complaining recently about a perceived lack of democracy, which made me realise that in nearly 50 years of voting (always SNP, as much for their left of centre policies as for their commitment to Independence)I have never seen the Party I support have power, control or indeed any influence at a UK level. Even now when the Scottish electorate elected 56 SNP MPs out of 59 MPs from Scottish Constituencies, the Party in power has systematically, ignored or ridiculed every single proposal, motion or amendment these MPs have put forward on behalf of their constituents. With the advent of EVEL it is no longer possible for a Scottish based MP, from any party, to serve as Prime Minister of the UK.

In the EU referendum voters in Scotland demonstrated their choice clearly 68% for Remain 32% for Leave - a majority of 36% for Remain compared with a mere 4% majority for Leave in the UK as a whole. In the aftermath of that referendum it has become clear that the voters were duped, misinformed and lied to by the leaders of both campaigns and this has reawakened the anger felt by many in Scotland when the vows and promises made by the NO side in the Scottish Referendum were cast aside, renegaded upon, disowned immediately after the result was declared.

I doubt if the Scottish Public are greatly enthused with the prospect of yet another referendum but facing the prospect of 2 years + of chaos and financial collapse with not a single statesmanlike person getting a grip of the situation at a UK level, but with a highly skilled and trusted captain at the helm, I think the majority of Scots will find the courage to abandon the floundering GB ship and strike out on our own.

I should not have to add that this has absolutely nothing to do with hatred of the English, Welsh or Irish, if there is any rancour it is directed at the wealthy elite, both in and out of Parliament who have been gambling and playing power games with our(as tax payers)money and with our hopes and aspirations, to score points in their own personal games of one-up-manship. They have brought this once great country to its knees and laughed while they did it. Uniquely of the 4 home nations Scotland has a good chance of retaining friendly relations with the EU and a team in the SG who are dedicated to serving the best interests of all the people in Scotland. The EU referendum debacle has been the straw (or rather 10tons of ordure)that has irrevocably broken this unequal Union.

It may be too early for anyone in Scotland to say as yet.

I'd like to know what I am being offered first, and the calibre of the people who will carry out what is necessary to get it.

What I would have liked was to see the Uk kept intact and strong within the trading union of the EU, all parts of it supported to a strong economy with plenty of work and trade, decent pay, good social provision for those who couldn't work, a solid infrastructure of house and road-building and reailway services, fully equipped and staffed schools, hospitals and medical centres, and enough left over to help other couintries get all the same things.

We have yet to see what we will get, and I suspect that whatever it is, it will take a while to create it.

Independence and "freedom" for its own sake, without these things, "won't buy the baby a new bonnet" as both my grandmothers would have said. They knew quite a lot about struggling to keep the baby in bonnets.

Well, from someone who was totally against the Scottish referendum I'm in awe of Ms Sturgeon; she's the only politician at the moment that makes me want to cheer whenever she's on the telly.

Well,what would you like to happen Elegran ( and any other Scots Gnetters) what do you see as being for the best?

They didn't before the EU referendum, but who knows what they would want now?

She Will do her best to show that she has 'tried' to engage in talks ( to stay in the EU) but IMHO it won't work.
DO the Scottish people want another divisive referendum about independance?

If England and Wales do a Greenland, then Scotland and Northern Ireland (and London too?) would remain in the EU and also in the UK, and there would be no need for a further referendum in Scotland.

rosesarered, you say, correctly, that the SNP so not reflect the wishes of all the Scottish people, but the fact that all the MSPs of all parties except the Tories (and they abstained rather that voting against) supported Nicola Sturgeon in the emergency debate suggests that it isn't just the SNP voters who wish her to do her best for Scotland in this chaos.

"Whoever said 'let England stew in it's own juice'... OOOh !"

Nonnie1, the poster immediately prior to you, at the top of page 4, said it.
No-one else, that I had seen.

I made a mistake in my post at 13:43:54. That BBC 1 link referred to a past debate broadcast earlier, not the one ongoing at the moment.

But it is live, and reported, at www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36639572

Instead of saying Scotland, say the Scottish people, and the SNP do not reflect ALL the ideals/wishes of the people there.in the Scottish referendum, the people decided to stay as part of the UK, although we are now ( or shortly will be) out of the EU, it is entirely possible that they will still want to stay as part of the UK, which will mean they cannot also be in the EU.Would the people in Scotland really want to go through another divisive referendum anyway?

Now that should frighten England. She is a far better representative of GB than Farage (from which of those would you buy a second-hand car).
NS is by far the cleverest politician around at the moment. Good luck to her.

Nicola Sturgeon is going to Brussels on Wednesday to talk to European Parliament President Martin Shulz www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36645355

Full coverage of debate at www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36639572

Also on BBC1 at 2 pm www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone?area=scotland

In an emergency debate at Holyrood on Tuesday afternoon, Labour, the Liberal Democrats and Scottish Greens have pledged to back Ms Sturgeon's motion.

Speaking ahead of the debate, Tory leader Ruth Davidson cautioned the SNP against using any negotiations to further their aim of independence.

"We absolutely support the Scottish government being part of the UK negotiating team, being integral in that team. I have spoken to the prime minister myself to make sure that Scotland's voice is heard in that process.

"But . . . taking us out of the UK - which is a far bigger market than us, more than four times as much - would be four times the shock to the Scottish economy."

Ahead of the debate, its co-convener Patrick Harvie said: "The message from the overwhelming majority of Scotland's people and its parliament must be made clear - we are a welcoming nation and deeply value citizens of other countries living here.

Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale said: "Labour will support this motion and we back the first minister's efforts to protect Scotland's relationship with the European Union.

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: "On Friday I committed my party to supporting Nicola Sturgeon's special EU negotiation process as there is a strong need for cross-party support, therefore we will support the motion tomorrow."

Perhaps the saddest post, ever Nonnie- let's hope this is not representative of the future to come

The most inward-looking tend to be uneducated whether they be rich or poor. Not an insult; just a fact.

I'm not ashamed, Tegan. I am what I am - English to the core, with no 'foreign' DNA going back at least 400 years. However, I'm sad that I live in a country with so many people who seem so inward-looking.

Tablet won't let me write N onnie either....

Bonnie: I'm not going to call you a racist but you have reinforced my feelings of being ashamed to be English at this moment in time.

nonnie - Here are the words of someone who was happy to be English this time last week-

"I don't think we will recover from this for decades. Feel totally gutted that we will almost certainly lose Scotland, particularly because my parents are Scottish but I was born and brought up here. I certainly don't feel English right now. Feel gutted that it won't be so easy for us to live in the EU. Feel so much instability for my girls future. I have no trust at all in our current regime or the lefts ability to influence them. So devastated. What a monumentally sad outcome."

Hey dd remember that sketch from League of Gentlemen "local shop for local people" and the gruesome couple behind the counter.

nonnie I know perfectly well you also meant all the other nationalities, but on this thread I reply for Scotland.

On a thread entitled Scotland/Sturgeon you put a post saying "Stop slagging the English off all of you. I am sure we will manage nicely when Scotland breaks all ties, and I do hope that includes monetary ties."

All ties means those who work in England - and that includes a vast number of Scottish people, many of them doctors - one of Scotland's biggest traditional industries is training doctors and surgeons to serve the rest of the UK (and the world)

and elsewhere "If you really don't like us then bugger off." so consider yourselves evicted.

You say you are very fond of your Irish neighbours - you don't sound it. Could they, do you think, be doing the kind of chaffing that goes on between friends? Smiling sweetly at them and saying nothing in return could be the wrong response, they think you are with their joke - show them your post and let them know that you are hurt.

Showing your true colours here girls