Scotland/Sturgeon

Why on earth would the EU want Scotland, they wouldn't be contributors but takers!?

No nigglynellie, I don't approve of tweaking. Why did you presume that I would?

I was only responding to your post.

I will change that to politicians including David Cameron.

Many people thought remain would win because egos blind them to other options.

Hardly a history lesson Daphndill, just the facts and you are welcome.

beammeupscottie Don't they have to 'put in' first?

Someone said to me, in Sainsbury's, that Scotland wouldn't leave Britain as it gets money from us and who would plug the gap. 10/10 for the answer. The EU!

Sorry - that should have been ! not 1....The cat was sitting on my knee when I was typing.

If Boris Johnson doesn't belong to the ruling class, I don't know who does1

That's democracy for you! Rubbish really! much better to have a dictatorship, then the ill educated morons, racists, and other undesirables won't threaten the ruling classes, know their place generally be patronised and keep their idiot views to themselves. Moral of all this is, never never have a referendum under any circumstances!

There would be border posts at intervals,of course, to extract customs dues from importers (as there were in Roman times - what goes around comes around)

We'd need large numbers ofexcise men to patrol the little coves and harbours and inlets all round the coast. An employment opportunity! Another would be smuggling, an old tradition revived.

On my Facebook feed this morning is a picture of a crumbling Hadrian's Wall with the caption 'Polish and Rumanian Bricklayers required for large Reconstruction Project'

If Scotland is in the EU and England out (of EU and free trade zone) does that mean an armed border along Hadrian's wall?

"why neither Scotland or N.I didn't seem to have even considered that the vote might go the other way?" But it wasn't "Scotland" or "NI", it was individual people in those places voting for what they wanted to happen.

I am sure that those at Holyrood or Stormont had considered the possiblity of either vote, but individuals had a right to vote as they thought fit - and did.

Perhaps a small point but DC's promise of a referendum came at the 2015 General Election AFTER the 2014 Scottish Referendum. Indeed, a major campaigning issue for the NO campaign was that Scotland could only remain in the EU if it stayed in the UK.

Presumably FarNorth you approve of 'tweaking'?! I don't. I see democracy as one man one vote, like the vote in the H's of C. You do risk a vote going the 'wrong way', but if that really can't be allowed, then why in the name of God have a referendum in the first place? If the will of the people isn't relevant and not to be heeded unless they vote the way you want, then don't risk asking them!

Thank you for the history lesson, Luckylegs.

Are you denying that Scotland also voted to stay in the EU?

Daphnedill, Scotland voted to stay with the U.K., nor the EU.


Nicola Sturgeon seems to have a grudge, as Alex Salmon, against England that the Scots don't have. They had a referendum and Cameron had promised a UK vote on leaving the EU, so it was on the cards when the Scottish referendum took place, are they going to keep having them until they get what they want. There are too many things to sort out first for the greater good.

Maybe it was tweaked but not quite enough, hence confusion for the politicians.

Of course Scotland and N.I. considered it might go the other way. Then it would be business as usual. There's not much point making a fuss about that.

They'd have to have done, because it was a collective vote for the UK as a whole. What I can't understand is why neither Scotland or N.I didn't seem to have even considered that the vote might go the other way?!! Wonder why?! Perhaps, like me, they thought it would be rigged?! like Russia etc where the always get the 'right' results! Surely a bit arrogant? Already this petition is throwing up fraud and is stupidly shooting itself in the foot. Everyone knows that honesty went out of the window years ago in nearly every walk of life, so it seems odd that it slipped through the net on Thursday and this vote wasn't rigged as many expected it would be, saving this performance of trying to prove it illegal or even immoral to get it overturned! Surely tweaking a result is a much less painful method of getting your own way?!

Well put daphnedill and Granny23.

If Scotland can negotiate with the EU to remain a member while still part of the UK, that would keep Spain happy.
Why would anyone in the rest of the UK object to that ?

But as it stands the UK is still in the EU and has yet to give formal notice of the intention to leave. It is expected that it will take at least 2 years (probably more) of negotiations, treaty repeals etc. before Brexit comes into force.

Meanwhile, the Scottish Government has set the wheels in motion to examine all options and if necessary, have a referendum on Independence well within the 2years so that we would still be IN the EU at that point. If the rest of the UK was about to BREXIT then it would make perfect sense to allocate the vacated UK membership to Scotland, where the electorate has voted by a convincing margin to REMAIN. This would undoubtedly suit the big financial and corporate institutions (who as we know have greater influence than we do as voters) because they could simply move HQ from London to Edinburgh, rather than having to take up residence in non-English-speaking Frankfurt or Paris.

I don't think the result of the 2014 referendum has much relevance as circumstances have changed so dramatically. We were, after all, told categorically that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to remain in the UK. That argument has, this week, be turned upside down and all the lies and broken promises made during the campaign have been exposed - just as happened to the all-party VOW made in the last week of the Scottish Referendum. 1000s of people have rushed to join the SNP over the weekend and a whole host of celebs and Scottish Labour politicians have announced their conversion to the Independence cause.

Finally, if the shoe were on the other foot and a huge remain vote from Scotland and NI had overturned a very narrow leave vote in England and Wales, would people then be so insistent that we are all in this together?

I'm sure it's not simple at all, but I think Sturgeon is right to stand up for Scotland - it's her job.

Constitutionally, Scotland is treated as a second-rate country within the UK . The SNP has no chance of ever forming a UK government and if I were a talented Conservative or Labour MP, I wouldn't be looking for a seat in Scotland, because I would know that I could never be in control of the whole of the UK.

Is the next step to deny Manchester MPs full rights in Westminster,because the city has been given a devolved budget?

Scotland receives considerable amounts of funding from the EU. This funding will stop, so Scotland is going to join the queue with Wales, Cornwall, the NHS, farmers, fishermen, universities, scientific and technological research for a share of that mythical £350 million.

No Conservative government is going to fast-track Scotland to the front of the queue.

time for supper.

I think you are right on both posts thatbags