Being blamed

When I asked someone why farmers were voting leave I was told it was because the landowner receives the grant/subsidy and often doesn't pass it on to tenant farmers. Which isn't actually the fault of the EU imo.

What is astounding is the amount of people who voted out would now vote remain

I certainly wouldn't have thrown my toys out of the pram if remain had won. It just looks like childish tantrums and cries of " It's not fair - I wanted to win," just my opinion of course.....

I am not throwing my toys out the pram, but I am very concerned about what lies ahead. As an optimist I hope things do work out well, but part of me thinks that this has limited the horizons for my DGC.

Of course, by the time they are old enough to go out into the world, it may all have changed.

The other reason I have signed the petition is because the vote was so close and quite a number of people interviewed seem startled by the result - although they say they voted to leave, they thought the vote would go to Remain
Illogical!

Having spoken to friends today (well-educated, well-travelled, high-achieving professionals) they have given me an insight into why they voted out and I respect their views and their decision.

DH said today that a higher proportion of older people voted, but the turnout amongst young people was much lower. Older people in the main voted for Brexit, young people to Remain according to polls. However, if older people were conscientious enough to make the effort to get out and vote and young people did not bother turn out in such numbers - they cannot then blame older people for the result.

A shocking wake-up call for them - exercise your franchise.

Or, who voted for people like Farage, who has been pickin up their excellent MEP salary but have not attended, nor have they sat on the Commissions they were elected to to make a difference
yes, but the way the voting works is that we can end up with a UKIP MEP (sorry, could have had) without the majority voting for them.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27187434

Marianne
Unfortunately only 24% of the next generation (under 25s) voted
Where did this statistic come from please? I've searched and can't find anything...
Something similar was being bandied about on Mumsnet along with a link to a document that said nothing of the sort. (It showed that if various demographic groups were put in order of who was most likely to vote, under 25's came 24th. It was also based on a survey completed in May - not even an exit poll). As far as I am aware, voting is by secret ballot; no one knows who voted and any figures that are produced are from a small sample poll.
I am only querying this, because I feel that we have had enough 'lies, damn lies and statistics' in the last weeks/months and look where that has got us! All the young people I know voted and are blaming the politicians not the older generation for the result.

Yes Durhamjen i met someone who said she'd been on a cruise and "they all" had decided that they would vote Leave because Obama said Remain. Lots of people voted Leave because they hate Cameron too. What a mess.

Just to follow up on the NFU topic: "The NFU Council resolves that on the balance of existing evidence available to us at present, the interests of farmers are best served by our continuing membership of the European Union."

nanasam Rick Astley for Prime Minister! I needed cheering up and that hit the spot!

Just had to check your spelling there, daphne. Whingers just doesn't look right, but it is.
Sounds like a football position, a thick whinger.

This is what the NFU thinks.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/26/uk-food-prices-set-to-rise-after-brexit-vote-farmers-union

Have you seen this, ceesnan?

@durhamjen

If that's true, I hope they don't whinge about being called thick whingers.

@Luckygirl

Do you honestly think that we won't be even more prey to fat cats and bankers? The UK controls more tax havens than any other counry on the planet. We have a huge financial services sector on our soil. We have lax tax laws and enforcement agencies, which encourage dodgy investment. Foreign investment vultures are already circling to snap up property if prices fall. Did you know that Russians and Saudis are the biggest property owners by value in parts of West London? Is that what you want to continue?

Successive British governments have done virtually nothing to crack down on fat cats and bankers. The EU has done more and is beginning to discuss some serious measures. That's the very reason some of our own home-grown fat cats have been so keen to fund Vote Leave.

Just heard that a lot of people voted leave because Obama wanted them to remain.
These are the very people who want us to be able to sell more to the US.

Sorry, Lucky, but if you came down marginally on the leave side and voted leave, you are a leaver, however you dress it up. Unfortunately the rest of us have to leave with you.

Candelle, I am desperately unhappy about the outcome of this referendum, and was totally against it even taking place.

But it did and the majority vote surely has to stand. I don't see how we can set out the referendum rules after the event. It's a damn shame nobody had the sense to do so beforehand though

EE, daphne. You'll get a slap on the wrist for that.

£350 million a week? I am still trying to find the list of promises. Definitely more than that so far.

Ceesnan You've got the three-crop thing arse end foremost back to front. Yet another Euromyth.

Crop diversification is the aim, to "address environmental concerns related to pressures that modern farming has put on water, soil, farmland habitats and related biodiversity, as well as contributing to tackling climate change. Monoculture, for example, reduces soil fertility and increases demand for fertilisers and plant protection products, which in turn can lead to water pollution and harm biodiversity." so " farms with more than 30 hectares of arable land will need to grow three crops. Farm of more than 10 hectares will be required to grow two crops and small farms will be excluded from all “greening” requirements." They can grow MORE than the two or three if they wish - otherwise how could anyone grow salad crops, or use the same land for a sequence of crops?
blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/agriculture-myths-cropping-the-facts-on-the-three-crop-rule/

daphnedill - I do not see myself as a Leaver - but as someone who had a very hard decision to make and marginally came down on the Leave side. I am not ashamed of my decision and see no reason to dodge the question. I have no problem that others hold a different view. I do object to posters who dismiss those with a different view as "thickos" though - that is not acceptable.

I hear all you say about immigration, but as long as successive governments ignored public concern and allowed a poor underclass to develop, then inevitably the subtleties on the subject that you describe would be lost and anger would be hard to contain.

The fatcats and the devious bankers have been laughing all the way to the bank and there was bound to be some sort of backlash. If you find yourself at the bottom of the heap and are watching others with their euro millions you will grab at any chance to have a say of some sort. If these people feel powerless in a UK context, how much more powerless must they feel in an EU context?

It is all so sad and divisive.

@durhamjen

Just read the link about Ebbw Vale. Sorry to say this, but it really does lend weight to the argument that Leavers are thickos.

I read that Cornwall and Wales want extra money from Westminster when we leave the EU. I hope they don't mind joining the queue with the NHS, farmers, fishermen, universities, scientific research and hundreds of others who will lose funding. Errrmmm...how much was it again?

@Luckygirl

Thank you for your detailed reply. Most Levers have been dodging the question.

I happen to agree with you about the size of the EU and the different needs of so many countries, but we were (and still are for the time being) one of the big players. The fact that UKIP MEPs don't bother turning up is the voters' fault. Others do a good job at representing the UK and are respected for it. I often read French and German newspapers and it's quite clear that we are valued. One side issue will be the future 'default' language of the EU, which up to now has been English. It's not true that Cameron came away with nothing. A four year delay on paying benefits to EU immigrants would have abolished any 'pull' factor and was a major concession.

The problem I see with some of the Eastern European states is that they are racist and right-wing. Unfortunately, UKIP allied with them, so one advantage to me of leaving will be that UKIP have had a major source of funding cut. Germany and other Western European states relied on the UK to fight off right-wing tendencies. I agree that it's difficult to have a 'one size fits all' approach to economics with so many different sovereign economies. The UK is, however, not affected like other countries, because we don't use the Euro. For that reason, we could never have been in the same situation as Greece. It's highly unlikely that Turkey will join the EU for many years.

It's questionable whether immigration has driven down wages, although I appreciate that it's perceived that way. The official statistics from the ONS don't show that they have, nor that 'they're stealing our jobs'. However, I think that politicians should have been braver in tackling the concerns head on. Even IF it's true that any of the concerns are valid, it's unlikely that immigration will decrease in the future - as Danila Hannan has now admitted. Over half of the immigrants to the UK come from outside the UK. The UK has always had full control of their numbers. Of the approximately 150,000 net EU immigrants, just over 20% come from the Republic of Ireland. We've had an agreement with Ireland since the 1920s about freedom of movement and that's not going to change. One of the main reasons the UK's net EU immigration has increased is that not so many UK citizens are moving abroad. There are a number of reasons for that, including economic depression in the EU and the exchange rate, which means the value of UK pensions and assets has fallen. One way or other, it's unlikely that immigration will fall. The number of asylum seekers and illegal immigrants might very well increase.

I blame UKIP for that as well.

This says a lot about the electorate, too.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale

Are you talking about organic farming, Ceesnan?

The acreage 'set aside' surely depends on the size of the farm?

'Remain' (or even 'Leave' voters who have had a re-think) voters could add their names to a petition (currently standing at three million signatures in two days but more are needed!). It can be found here:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

I understand that this is a contentious subject and most of us feel strongly one way or another but many of us would rather the UK does not fragment as may be the consequence of this referendum. This petition may be a lifeline. Please consider signing.

How can we be a big player when many of our MEPs do not even believe in the EU and treat it with contempt? - if we are in we have to be in and do the job properly. The fact that these known eurosceptics are voted in says a lot about the electorate's views. That is not a tenable situation.