A new Centre party?

Isn't there some kind of code of conduct? He should be suspended.

Did he? I damned well hope so.

Daphne , on the first day of the new parliment Hamilton insulted the leader of Plaid and the .leader of the Welsh Libs, both women, he wanted to be deputy leader and the vote went to Caerwen Jones labour. Hamilton called Leanne and Kirsty - Caerwens concubines , did he get a slating,

Anniebach you may not like it (I wouldn't) but it is a reflection of the preferences of Welsh voters and this is the point of proportional representation, but I do think you have a particular problem in Wales because the elctorate and the number of seats in the Senydd is quite small and this will lead to distortions.

In the bigger elctorate of the UK the results would be more diffuse but we might have to accept extreme right wing, or even extreme religious parties ending up with a couple of seats.

No solution is ideal. It is a bit like putting the map of a 3 dimensional feature like the world on a flat piece of paper. Whatever way you do it you have to expect some distortion. The decisison is which distortion is amost acceptable.

I agree with you absolutely, Monica. That's what I was going on about (on another thread ?) about Germany. Coalition government is the norm and there have been a variety of coalitions since the end of WW2. I don't think many people would deny that Germany is the most economically successful and stable country in Europe with a high standard of living and generous benefits and pensions. It doesn't even have any natural gas or oil!

Hopefully people will realise just how ghastly he is.

I was for it untill we ended up with seven UKIP in the Senydd , in my defence one is the ghastly Neil Hamilton

I would like to know whether any Labour party supporters think there is any chance at all of their party ever advocating proportional representation.

I had an interview on the radio yesterday, cannot remember programme or interviewee, but he put forward an intersting proposition.

He pointed out that both our main parties were two parties in one, both with with a centrist wing but also with an extreme right/left grouping, permanently at war with the majority. He put this down to the first past the post electoral system that makes it difficult for any smaller party to get many seats because voting is so polarised.

He compared us with European countries that, mostly, have four or five parties of more equal size plus a significant proportion of MPs representing more minority parties and where government is mainly by coalitions.

He said that this was the result of proportional voting systems and it meant that there was far less alienation between electorate and governement because parliament always represented a cross section of political opinion and very little feuding within political parties.

I thought this an interesting contribution to the debate we are having.

action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/m/4c18857/618bba6a/63c1490c/167ed674/2774234736/VEsF/

I agree with an alliance of parties to fight the corrupt Brexit campaign and give the country a second referendum

www.facebook.com/events/490212424505800/

On Tuesday.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/07/03/a-progressive-alliance-an-encouraging-sign/

varian, I apologise for my use of language. I did some canvassing for the LibDems in a local election before the general election and this was the argument I encountered on the doorstep.

We have a particularly high number of people who go on to higher education, so people did feel 'sold out'. I told them about LibDems trading student loans for pupil premium, but it went over most people's heads.

Yes, I know, Annie. That's why we need the police to hurry up with this, while the Tory party are still split, and while the general population are still angry at being lied to.

The point is that how are the Tories going to be stopped? How can this country be seen as a democracy, when lying to the electorate is accepted as part of the realism of political life, when there is no credible opposition to represent 3/4 of the population, and when the media think and probably do run the shop.

Not necessarily, ab. Germany has a CDU/CSU/SPD coalition government with a healthy number of Greens in parliament. The CDU is the main Conservative party. The CSU is the Bavarian branch of the CDU, but has its own agenda. The SPD is the socialist party. Somehow it works. There is another party, the FDP, which is a centre party most like the LibDems and sometimes makes up the balance of power. Hans-Dietrich Genscher, who was post-war Germany's longest serving politician and very influential, was a member of the FDP, although the party has never been in power as anything other than a minority in a coalition.

I think we should be careful about the effect of loaded cliches when we talk about politics. To use expressions like "sell out to the conservatives" or "getting into bed with the tories" implies the sort of condemmnation of co-operation which is favoured by the tabloid press. The media are only interested in confrontation. The difficult decision to enter coalition damaged the party but did seem to be in the interests of the country. I think that co-operation between parties will be more than ever needed from now on,

Jen, the Tories are going to get stronger with May as leader

I too understand Daphne. So a coalition party of Libs. Welsh Libs. SDP. Sin Fein . Labour, Welsh labour. Greens. UKIP. possibly Tories. Plaid Cymru.

So I think you want a coalition between Greens and Libs ? Nothing stopping them but it would mean the Greens would vanish as a party I. It's own right.

A coalition worked in the war , there was a common enemy , there is no common enemy now

dj, It could also mean a Ukip win in Thanet.

ab, I respect your decision and, having followed many of your posts, I can understand why. However, I would join a new party. I have always wavered between LibDems and Greens anyway, especially as my vote has never counted. In the last election I voted Labour (even though my vote still didn't count), but I didn't agree with everything Labour wanted and still don't. I was prepared to compromise.

I have friends in the local LibDem party. There aren't many of them left after seeing the sell-out to the Conservatives, but they would be much more prepared to work with Labour. They would certainly work with the Greens, because the Greens aren't that different from the old Liberals.

The important thing is to have an effective opposition, which I don't believe we have at the moment.

What we need is for the police to hurry up looking at election expenses at the last election.
That could put enough Tories out of parliament for the government to lose its majority. I doubt whether all those in the south west would vote in other Tories in byelections, knowing what has happened.

The most important issue at this stage is to ensure that those with low incomes aren't hit by inflation, freezing of benefits and state pensions, higher rents and weakening of social and employment protection and (of course) to challenge the increase in racism/xenophobia. We need a government to do that, but I'm not holding my breath, because all of the current contenders for Conservative leadership are further to the right than Cameron.

One way or the other, it's the 'little people' who will pay the price for BREXIT through inflation, cuts to public services, fewer jobs and a devalued pound.

Inflation is almost certain and the Bank of England's standard monetary policy response will be to raise interest rates. That's good news to anybody with savings, but extremely bad news for anybody with nothing. The real winners will be those with mega assets, because they will make the most. They will also be scouring the bargain basement of bankrupted companies and property.

We are in desperate need of a government to protect us from what lies ahead or at least a strong opposition to scrutinise and challenge every move the government makes.

PS. I don't know much about internal Scottish politics, but is there any chance that Labour or LibDems could regain some of their lost seats at Westminster?

I wouldn't join or support a new party whitewave. The country is so divided now, the last time we had a coalition there were three parties in the country and one parliment . How many parties are there now